Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Ouch, while I agree with this beign nerfed, I don't agree with the rewording - surely we can make it sound less confusing than that? I had to read it three times before I understood it.

I thought set asides were already gained abilities??

Also, why is this so bad?  Its a two card combo that cannot be negated and takes one turn to set up.  There are lots of two card combos that cannot be negated that don't take one turn to set up.  Are those cards going to get errata too?

Its a recurable combo, a very easily recurable combo. simply add in Soldiers Prayer, think type 2. Thats six uses.

or Joiada. two turns, yeah, but still OP'd.

the wording on that is horrid. I like the Other Prof's better.

This gets around Kingdoms and Wall, Writ and UN can be Captured Arked. Darkness is the only really super reliable counter.

How does it get around wall?

And if that combo comes up against a well built orange deck it will be useless.

Yes, the combo is counterable, so are almost all combo's.

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on May 13, 2010, 03:18:53 PM

...surely we can make it sound less confusing than that?...

I agree.  I would recommend:

"Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn to return an Evil Character in play to the bottom of its owner's draw pile."

That doesn't work, since it does not require you to put a hero that you set aside into battle.

@ Sean, the way the card was worded, it was not an ability gained by the heroes.  Rather, it was a response, which happens AFTER all other abilities complete.  Choose blocker happens after all other abilities, but it does not happen after responses.  Since the response happened last, we had a CBN battle winner after a choose the blocker ability.  While the strength of that combo was on the extreme side, that alone was not the sole deciding factor here.  The other was that experienced players (like you) think that the ability is a gained ability, and many didn't see it was a response.

So, in a nutshell, the ability is being ruled a gained ability.  If anyone can think of a better way to say it (but still have it function exactly the same - as an ability gained by all the characters but only gets to be used by the first one in battle, after which all the other characters lose it), please try. 

Tim Maly's suggestion is the one in the top post, and I could not think of a way to improve it.

What did you think of my suggestion? The function is not exactly the same, but it is exactly how 98% of people use it except for those who run the aformentioned combo (i.e. for TGT territory clearing). And as soon as I read the first suggestion, I thought that it might be the result of Maly's convoluted phraseology.  

Current:  I attack with Asahel and put an EC under deck.  Then, I can choose the blocker (if one remains).

Yours:  I attack with Asahel and choose the blocker.  Then, I put an EC from territory under deck (if one remains).

So, this plays out differently if there is only one EC in territory (which is a VERY common occurrence, if TGT critics are to be believed). 

The only difference between the two as far as I can see is the scenario in which a CTB hero is making a BC with only one EC in opponent's territory. Am I missing something?

No.

"Set aside all of your human Heroes for one turn. Each of them gains the ability, "Return an Evil Character in play to bottom of deck if no character who gained this ability on the same turn has entered battle yet."

How's that work? It's shorter and less awkward imo.

I'm not seeing how this isn't a gained ability.  The SA is added to the Hero(s) through the set aside; the special ability is gained.

Seems to me that the CTB, PoUB, and order of operations "butt heads."  The order of operations say that you cannot choose the blocker until all gained abilities have been resolved.  Therefore, PoUB triggers before CTB and since there is no block the SA of PoUB has no effect.

Who has the ability if it is gained? It is a triggered effect, much like Hidden Treasures. The prophet doesn't gain an ability to play an enhancement, the artifact's ability allows you to do that when you attack with a green prophet.

The reason it is how it is currently is that triggered abilities come after CtB in the order of operations.

How about this:

"Set aside all your human heroes for one turn. On return, all heroes set aside gain the ability: "The first hero with this ability to enter battle may place one evil character in play to the bottom of its owner's deck. May be used once."

That's simple, makes it a gained ability and everything else you wanted. The maybe be used once clause might not be needed, but I added it just in case.