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Author Topic: Asahel vs Convert  (Read 940 times)

browarod

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Asahel vs Convert
« on: May 15, 2016, 01:33:58 PM »
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My opponent attacks with Asahel and I block with some random low stats gold EC whose ability doesn't matter. I play Evil Spirit. Per the Convert special condition an EC cannot be attacking and is withdrawn, but Asahel is protected from withdraw. What exactly happens?


Relevant ability snippets:
Asahel - Protect Asahel from withdraw and return abilities.

Evil Spirit - Convert any O.T. human Hero to an Evil Character for remainder of battle.

Quote from: REG
If a convert ability creates a Hero blocking in battle or an Evil Character attacking then that character must withdraw to its owner's territory as a response to the convert ability.
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Offline kram1138

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2016, 01:40:59 PM »
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Convert isn't a withdraw ability,so he would be withdrawn regardless of his protection. If he was protected from withdraw, I don't know
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2016, 01:43:53 PM »
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Well, before I would have said it's not actually a Withdraw (the Redemption ability) but with the madness on Heal, there's just another !logic error in the way this plays out. To be consistent with Heal, Asahel just kind of chills in battle looking awkward.
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Offline kram1138

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2016, 02:31:25 PM »
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It's actually totally consistent with searching with heal. Heal isn't considered a search ability, and convert isn't considered a withdraw ability, even though they can cause searching or withdrawing. So Asahel isn't protected from withdraw by game rule, just withdraw from special abilities. HSR stops you from performing the game action of searching through a deck or discard pile, and thus would stop a heal.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2016, 06:29:48 PM »
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Quote from: Minister Polarius on May 15, 2016, 01:43:53 PM
Well, before I would have said it's not actually a Withdraw (the Redemption ability) but with the madness on Heal, there's just another !logic error in the way this plays out. To be consistent with Heal, Asahel just kind of chills in battle looking awkward.

No, there's not a logic error or inconsistency here.  You can't be on a side of the battle that is of the 'wrong' alignment by game rule.  When that situation would occur, such as here with convert, the character goes back to territory, because he can't be on that side of the battle (same with when an EC is converted).
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2016, 10:31:50 PM »
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+1
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Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

browarod

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2016, 12:40:50 AM »
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Before today I would have agreed with Redoubter's stance, however in the other thread Naz apparently stops Exchange into deck even though Exchange isn't a search ability so I just don't know anything anymore.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2016, 07:08:27 AM »
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That has been the ruling since Naz was released, and we have not had an issue with that before. In this case there is a game rule that cannot be overcome. Some rules are not broken by SA.

Just like a band still doesn't let you control multiple copies of a unique character, even though band breaks the normal rules on bringing characters into battle, converted characters cannot remain on the 'wrong' side of the battle; that cannot be overcome, so the character must go to territory.
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browarod

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Re: Asahel vs Convert
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2016, 08:43:33 AM »
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I know I brought it up but this isn't the place to debate anything regarding Naz. I just hope that the Elder discussions favor clarity even if that changes the status quo.

Locking because there's no further need to discuss Asahel as that question has been answered.
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