Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Arrogance (Pa)

Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Crimson • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Holder may play as many evil enhancements as desired. Initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements. • Play As: Holder may play as many evil enhancements as desired [play an enhancement]. Initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon, Connected with David • Verse: I Samuel 17:43-44

So I was wondering that if since it says that initiative doesn't pass until you're done does that mean that if you discard the hero in battle they don't have initiative to negate it? I'm assuming that they can but I just wanted to double check that.

Of course they will get initiative to negate it--just not right away maybe. As noted in the REG...

Interrupt the battle interrupts the following:

    Your opponent’s special abilities that are (1) causing you to be losing by removal (e.g., your opponent’s Net (BL)), or (2) causing a mutual destruction by mutual removal (e.g., your opponent’s King Zimri (Ki) but not your own King Zimri (Ki)).

    The last enhancement played in battle, as long as it was played by an opponent (e.g., your opponent’s False Peace (Pr) but not your own Reach of Desperation (Wo)).

    ALL ongoing special abilities (see Ongoing Abilities).

According to this you can always interrupt a removal ability--even if it is not the last enhancement played.

So if your opponent blocks your green prophet with a crimson non-Nergel EC and plays Arrogance, Head of Gold (capture your Hero in battle), Great Image (kill the rest of your heroes), and Destructive Decay (get rid of an artifact) you can play Two Bears and interrrupt the Destructive Decay (last enhancement), the Great Image (ongoing sa) as well as Head of Gold (losing by removal),

Good question though.  I was walking down this same path myself a week or so back.

The search function is broken, but we've had plenty of arguments over this card in the past.

I'm still not really sure how it works.

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on May 31, 2012, 05:36:28 PM

The search function is broken, but we've had plenty of arguments over this card in the past.

I'm still not really sure how it works.

This is what Gabe posted the last time this came up, quoting an even older post:

Quote from: Gabe on August 26, 2011, 04:46:38 PM

Quote from: SirNobody on July 23, 2009, 04:49:51 PM

Arrogance is like Babel for enhancements.  You choose a certain number of enhancements to play put them all into play at once, they then take effect in the order you choose.  Once the last enhancement completes you determine initiative normally (giving a character the opportunity to negate their own removal from battle if that is applicable).

I asked Mike to include a Play As for Arrogance in the REG update that is coming out this weekend.  If things go smoothly come Monday Arrogance will have the play as, "Holder may play X enhancements."  With the new identifier: "X = any number that holder chooses"

That would be nice. But still, it's not a very good card.

Just end the chain with an end-the-battle card and they can't negate anything.

You'd need a multi brigade character to do that.

Well, the plan is to play Arrogance on a Babylonian and then play Mask of Worldliness which allows you to play enhancements of any brigade... then I destroy everything with cards such as, Head of Gold, Great Image, False Peace, Confusion, drawing cards like Dream, Swift Horses, etc., then at the end play Momentum Change and then something like Belshazzar's Banquet to discard the evil character and protect the souls. Then I'd put the enhancements in Storehouse and slowly bring them out until I can pull off Golgotha-->Momentum Change-->Abraham's Descendants and do it all over again. Then do everything again as many times as necessary with the recursion of Abraham's Descendants with Asher.

It'd take awhile to set up but if the deck is big enough and has cards such as 7 Years of Plenty with the Gen. offense to get Storehouse I think it would be pretty fun...

i always thought that with arogance, you played them as you would if it was your iniciaive untill you passed it.

Well the specific wording on the card is "Holder may play as many enhacements as desired, initiative passes when holder is done playing enhancements." thats the part that always made me think that.

im just sayin that this is more what it sounds like.

i agree with him too that we need to listen to the elders and others, im just sayin that it sounds more like it is saying that.

I think it will always stay as described ( only stuff in your hand when arroganc is played ) unless they change the target of arrogance to the player rather than the enhancements.

[/quote]But, as far as single characters other than Self who could do it on their own (without outside help from anything else), you can use Astrologers, Chaldeans, and Users of Curious Arts.

No matter how you tried to do it (banding, using weapons, single character), magicians are the way to go.  They can use 4 end-the-battle cards, access all brigades, can use weapons with Manny, and have 3 characters to pull it off alone.
[/quote]

Yep. Magicians go with anything.

Quote from: YourMathTeacher on June 03, 2012, 10:13:36 AM

Well, based on the "Play As" that was suggested, wouldn't X be dynamic? Could I then change X as my turn progresses?

No. Or at least "no" based on Sir Nobody's ruling (for which the play as you are referencing is a part).

If the proposed play as were the only thing we had, that would be a valid possible interpretation. The thing is that this interpretation is in direct conflict with the description given immediately prior of choosing all enhancements, putting them in play at once and then activating them in any chosen order.

Oh, I know. But a guy can dream, can't he?