Cactus Game Design Message Boards

What constitutes a "battle" in the game of Redemption? Battle defined: "An encounter between opposing forces". Is making a rescue attempt defined as a battle? Or is it once you face an opponent in the field of battle? Pretty big difference when in context of this card. It does not say two uses or activations on the card. It does say two discards per game. If your opponent does not present an evil character is it considered a battle?

Is this the consensus?

According to the Rule Book:

Battle Resolution

As is described in Battle Resolution in the rulebook, there are four outcomes to a battle:

•      Evil Character wins

•      Hero wins

•      Mutual destruction

•      Stalemate

However, beyond the outcome of the battle you must also determine the outcomes of the battle challenge or rescue attempt. Here is the order to follow:

1.  Determine the outcome of the battle (Evil Character wins, Heroes wins, mutual destruction, or stalemate).

2.  Determine success or failure of the rescue attempt or battle challenge. If the battle was a battle challenge, then success or failure of a battle challenge has only one condition, the battle outcome in step 1. If Hero wins and has (or has gained) access to a Lost Soul, it’s a successful rescue. If Hero loses battle or loses access to opponent’s Lost Souls, then the rescue fails.

3.  Resolve end-of-battle special ability based on the conditions established in Steps 1 and 2. All unaffected cards are treated under normal gameplay rules (such as discard, return to territory, Land of Redemption, etc).


They are separate. You have a battle and you have a rescue attempt/battle challenge.

by the rulebook it seems to me you can have a Rescue attempt/battle challenge without a battle. That's why in a battle challenge they can decline to battle. However you can not have a battle without a RA/BC.

I asked something like this three years ago. The consensus was that anytime a discard is used or occurs in the field of battle, whether ark is used or not, ark gets tapped. I argued that only the discard from ark constitute as a use because of the "limit to such discards per game clause".. The Elders agreed and Bryon talked about making a change within the year but I am not sure if he did.

From the REG
You begin a rescue attempt or battle challenge by placing a Hero in the Field of Battle. The Hero can be played from your hand or your territory. Some Heroes have a special ability printed over the picture on the card. This special ability does not become active until the Hero enters battle. Once the Hero enters battle, the special ability is activated simultaneously. The instructions on the card must be applied at that moment. If the special ability includes the word “may,” you can choose to activate the special ability or skip it for that battle. Once the Hero has entered battle and special ability completed, he has begun the battle. At this point, declare your intentions to make a rescue attempt or battle challenge.

I asked something like this three years ago. The consensus was that anytime a discard is used or occurs in the field of battle, whether ark is used or not, ark gets tapped. I argued that only the discard from ark constitute as a use because of the "limit to such discards per game clause".. The Elders agreed and Bryon talked about making a change within the year but I am not sure if he did.

From the REG
You begin a rescue attempt or battle challenge by placing a Hero in the Field of Battle. The Hero can be played from your hand or your territory. Some Heroes have a special ability printed over the picture on the card. This special ability does not become active until the Hero enters battle. Once the Hero enters battle, the special ability is activated simultaneously. The instructions on the card must be applied at that moment. If the special ability includes the word “may,” you can choose to activate the special ability or skip it for that battle. Once the Hero has entered battle and special ability completed, he has begun the battle. At this point, declare your intentions to make a rescue attempt or battle challenge.

As is described in Battle Resolution in the rulebook, there are four outcomes to a battle:

•      Evil Character wins

•      Hero wins

•      Mutual destruction

•      Stalemate

Hero Wins                           

Your Hero wins if one of these condi­tions is met:

•      The Hero’s strength is greater than or equal to the Evil Character’s toughness, and the Evil Character’s strength is less than the Hero’s toughness. The Evil Character is discarded, and your Hero withdraws to your territory.

•      The Hero ignores the Evil Character. The Hero and the Evil Character each withdraw to his owner’s territory.

•      All blocking Evil Characters were removed from bat­tle. Surviving Heroes return to their owners’ territories.


Currently there are 2 definitions of Battle. The resolution to a battle is described above. Hero winning indicates that you defeat an evil character. You enter the field of battle, but no battle can be resolved without an evil character being presented. If they don't present an evil character, how can the battle be resolved? Ergo, I believe you can have a rescue attempt without a battle.

You could call it that. But battle resolution and the ongoing part of battle before battle resolution that is considered "battle" have always been considered two different things. If battle resolution is the only way to start the battle then cards like unknown nation, gates of Hell, etc..  would never work because it constitutes the end of battle.

Unknown nation & Gates of Hell could be used as an evil banding cards as you are adding them to the battle.

If a hero not blocked by an evil character is not a battle then Hidden Treasures never works.

Hidden Treasures
Once per turn, if your lone green brigade prophet begins a battle, you may play an Enhancement or discard an evil Enhancement in an opponent's deck.

It would work once they offer an opposing force.


My point is, the rule book is not clear on this and by definition a battle does not exist without an opposing force. I want a consensus on what the rule is on the AOTC. =)

Quote from: theselfevident on June 25, 2011, 09:58:00 AM

Is this the consensus?

Yes.

Quote from: theselfevident on June 25, 2011, 10:48:29 AM

My point is, the rule book is not clear on this. I want a consensus on what the rule is on the AOTC.

The rulebook is outdated. The consensus has already been expressed in this thread. A battle begins as soon as a hero is placed into the Field of Battle.

Then the REG and rulebook should be updated.

Quote from: theselfevident on June 25, 2011, 11:00:31 AM

Then the REG and rulebook should be updated.

LOL. You're preaching to the choir. 

Do you see my logic in my argument tho?