« previous next »
Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?  (Read 2425 times)

Offline Gabe

  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+69)
  • *****
  • Posts: 10675
  • From Moses to the prophets, it's all about Him!
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Land of Redemption
Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« on: November 20, 2019, 03:47:38 PM »
0
My male Hero is in battle and the defending player uses Fiery Darts to to discard my Hero. I have Death of Family played as good in my territory so I discard it to add Rahab, the Defender to battle. Rahab negates Fiery Darts. Under the current cascade negate rule does Rahab leave battle and I get Death of Family back?

Fiery Darts - Discard a Hero.

Death of Family - Place in territory: If your male Hero is discarded, you may discard this card to add your female Hero to battle.

Rahab, the Defender (relevant portion) - negate an evil card.
Logged
Have you visited the Land of Redemption today?

Offline Red Dragon Thorn

  • Covenant Games
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+10)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5373
    • -
    • North Central Region
    • Covenant Games
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2019, 04:06:50 PM »
+3
*shrug* I don't know. Guess that's why we're getting rid of it
Logged
www.covenantgames.com

Offline Kevinthedude

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1856
  • Yo
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2019, 04:21:01 PM »
+1
This is less of a problem with cascade negate, but with the idea that negate "goes back in time" because there are cases like this where it obviously doesn't. Negate should be treated as undoing the effects of an ability rather than trying to pretend it never happened.
Logged

Offline goalieking87

  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
    • East Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2019, 06:04:43 PM »
0
Sure, you get Death if Family back. Why not?

Then since your male hero was never discarded (the discard was negated), then Rahab goes back to your territory, which means Rahab never entered battle and never negated fiery darts, so your male hero is being discarded again.

Since this creates an infinite loop, the game immediately ends in a timeout based on the score as of the time of that scenario...new strategies emerge.
Logged

Offline Bobbert

  • Trade Count: (+8)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1773
  • The player formerly known as Thomas Hunter
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2019, 06:11:37 PM »
0
So admittedly I'm a bit fried atm, so if this is incoherent/incorrect feel free to ignore me.
Death of Family is an instant ability that triggers off a condition. Negating Firey Darts doesn't actually negate Death of Family, it just undoes the condition of an instant ability that has already triggered. My gut would say that you don't get DoF back, but both Rahab and the original hero in battle.

Not that it'll be relevant in a couple months.
Logged
ANB is good. Change my mind.

Offline The Schaefer

  • Redemption Elder
  • Trade Count: (0)
  • *****
  • Posts: 543
    • -
    • South Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2019, 08:45:02 PM »
0
Under current rules I'm not sure and that's part of why I dont like how convoluted "cascade" rulings are.

Intuitively I feel that any backtracking shouldnt affect cards no longer in play, so basically once a resource has been used you dont regain it through some backtracking stuff. Resources used should remain resources used imo.
Logged

Offline goalieking87

  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
    • East Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2019, 08:59:14 PM »
0
Quote from: goalieking87 on November 20, 2019, 06:04:43 PM
Since this creates an infinite loop, the game immediately ends in a timeout based on the score as of the time of that scenario...new strategies emerge.

As is typical, I was mostly kidding with my response. I thought the last part would probably get that across, but wanted to mention that explicitly just in case.

Quote
Not that it'll be relevant in a couple months.

If by in a couple of months you mean a couple of weeks. December 1st is almost here!
Logged

Offline RedemptionAggie

  • Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+38)
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • -
    • South Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2019, 09:24:40 PM »
0
The bans are scheduled for December 1st. Cascade doesn't get removed until the new REG releases, sometime early next year.
Logged

Offline goalieking87

  • Trade Count: (+52)
  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 496
    • East Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2019, 09:47:39 PM »
0
Ah, I see
Logged

Offline STAMP

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+19)
  • *****
  • Posts: 5014
  • Redemption brings Freedom
    • -
    • Northwest Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2019, 11:40:16 PM »
0
Quote from: Gabe on November 20, 2019, 03:47:38 PM
My male Hero is in battle and the defending player uses Fiery Darts to to discard my Hero. I have Death of Family played as good in my territory so I discard it to add Rahab, the Defender to battle. Rahab negates Fiery Darts. Under the current cascade negate rule does Rahab leave battle and I get Death of Family back?

Fiery Darts - Discard a Hero.

Death of Family - Place in territory: If your male Hero is discarded, you may discard this card to add your female Hero to battle.

Rahab, the Defender (relevant portion) - negate an evil card.

Mr. 777Godspeed texted me today to let me know some changes are a'comin'.   :)

I realize I'm rustier than a '72 Buick in International Falls, MN, but isn't Death of Family out of play when Fiery Darts is negated?  Wouldn't the only way to target Death of Family, whether by activating a special ability OR un-activating a special ability (cascading negate), be to specify last good enhancement?

I also realize that there are probably a gajillion other scenarios I don't know about because of the bazillion new cards that are in circulation since I last posted anything in this section.   ;D

Now my head hurts.
Logged
Final ANB errata: Return player to game.

Offline 777Godspeed

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+29)
  • *****
  • Posts: 1985
  • Breathe redemption into wasted life, Breathe deep
    • -
    • Northwest Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2019, 01:34:18 AM »
0
aawwww, STAMP so good to see ya back... I had to pique your interest somehow and what better way than with all the awesome things happening....  :o


Godspeed,
Mike
Logged
Divine mental biopsy reveals you need psychosurgery
When in doubt  D3.
I support Your Turn Games.

Offline ChristianSoldier

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1613
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2019, 02:57:44 AM »
0
My understanding is to go with what Gabe said originally, Death in the Family gets negated and returned to play and Rahab gets kicked out, but Rahab's negate doesn't get undone because of the rule against loops (like banding Moses into battle). That being said, it seems a little ridiculous that you would essentially negate the card for free. But I think that's how it should work (at least pending reading something in the REG that makes me think otherwise).
Logged
If you are reading this signature, thank a physicist.

Offline Watchman

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+47)
  • *****
  • Posts: 2487
    • -
    • Southeast Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2019, 07:51:48 AM »
0
I believe this would fall under the current rule as if YWR is used to ATB (such as adding Moses who would negate the hero removing ability). YWR would still be banished and Moses not kicked out.
Logged
Overcome satan by the blood of the Lamb, your testimony, and don't love your life to the death!

Offline The Guardian

  • Playtester, Redemption Elder
  • Global Moderator
  • Trade Count: (+96)
  • *****
  • Posts: 12344
  • The Stars are coming out...
    • -
    • North Central Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2019, 09:32:23 AM »
0
Quote from: Watchman on November 21, 2019, 07:51:48 AM
I believe this would fall under the current rule as if YWR is used to ATB (such as adding Moses who would negate the hero removing ability). YWR would still be banished and Moses not kicked out.

+1
Logged
Fortress Alstad
Have you checked the REG?
Have you looked it up in ORCID?

Offline Noah

  • Tournament Host
  • Trade Count: (+5)
  • *****
  • Posts: 672
  • AKA: tripleplayno3
    • -
    • Midwest Region
Re: Are Triggered Abilities Currently Cascaded?
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2019, 03:16:43 PM »
0
So, without cascade negate, does that also remove the need for the rule that says "you can't indirectly negate yourself" like how banding to a FBTN character has been ruled since, forever?
Logged
Filling my Ark since Nats 2016.

Soli Deo Gloria

#CascadeDelendaEst
Pages: [1]   Go Up
« previous next »
 
SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal