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Author Topic: Another HHI question  (Read 1129 times)

Offline The Schaefer

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Another HHI question
« on: December 31, 2016, 06:06:08 AM »
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If AUTO exchanges for Gideon (CoW) while an opponents HHI is up would Gideon be protected from HHIs ignore or not?
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2016, 07:58:19 AM »
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HHI (Household Idols) is a prevent good banding ability, not an ignore ability. Exchanges of heroes are not band abilities; therefore, HHI has no effect on AUTO exchanging with Gideon, or affect Gideon in-general.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2016, 10:14:23 AM by Watchman492 »
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #2 on: December 31, 2016, 11:30:25 AM »
+1
Quote from: Watchman492 on December 31, 2016, 07:58:19 AM
HHI (Household Idols) is a prevent good banding ability, not an ignore ability. Exchanges of heroes are not band abilities; therefore, HHI has no effect on AUTO exchanging with Gideon, or affect Gideon in-general.

HHI is an ignore and a prevent. "Has no effect" is the same as ignore. Also COW Gideon has a band ability so alone he would be ignored by it. As long as Gideon wasn't in play before the exchange I think he should be protected though.
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Offline Watchman

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #3 on: December 31, 2016, 12:27:40 PM »
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Thanks Kevin. I obviously missed the "has no effect" part, and I forgot about Gideon's band ability to Gideon's 300.
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kariusvega

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2017, 05:14:29 PM »
+1
auto to gideon (from anywhere but play) would allow gideon to rescue through hhi

WOW i FINALLY found 1 good reason to use auto and gideon over every other hero in the game!!
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Offline Josh

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2017, 10:55:05 AM »
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Isn't this the exact same scenario as Zeb (drawn 5+) vs. FW blocking from hand?

1. Preblock Ignore is in effect.
- Zeb
- HHI

2. Character that is currently out of play is entering play (and would be Ignored if it was already in play).
- FW from hand
- Gideon from deck

3. Character that enters play is protected from the Ignore when it hits battle.
- FW protects herself from opponents' cards
- AUTO protects Gideon from opponents' cards

You can find the Zeb/FW thread here.

I would agree that Gideon is not being Ignored by HHI, just like I think that FW is not being Ignored by Zeb in the other thread. 

kariusvega, you seem to be taking contradictory stances here. Care to clarify?  :P
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Offline Cnakeeyes

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2017, 11:19:34 AM »
+1
I would say it's different because it's Auto protecting Gideon. Foreign wives ability has to check before it activates and by then it's already ignored where as Auto's protect is in play and active before Gideon hits the table. Just my thoughts.

This is why I was not a big fan of changing preblock ignore even though I understood the reasons they did it.
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2017, 11:22:21 AM »
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Quote from: jmhartz on January 03, 2017, 10:55:05 AM
Isn't this the exact same scenario as Zeb (drawn 5+) vs. FW blocking from hand?

1. Preblock Ignore is in effect.
- Zeb
- HHI

2. Character that is currently out of play is entering play (and would be Ignored if it was already in play).
- FW from hand
- Gideon from deck

3. Character that enters play is protected from the Ignore when it hits battle.
- FW protects herself from opponents' cards
- AUTO protects Gideon from opponents' cards

You can find the Zeb/FW thread here.

I would agree that Gideon is not being Ignored by HHI, just like I think that FW is not being Ignored by Zeb in the other thread. 

kariusvega, you seem to be taking contradictory stances here. Care to clarify?  :P

The potential difference is the is confusion about whether FW is considered in play and targeted before her ability completes. With Gideon, the protection ability is on AUTO and has already fully resolved while Gideon is still definitely out of play. I was also one of the ones arguing that FW shouldn't be ignored by Zeb but I can also see how it can be argued these situations aren't the same.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 01:22:07 PM by Kevinthedude »
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Offline Josh

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2017, 11:56:11 AM »
+1
Quote from: Kevinthedude on January 03, 2017, 11:22:21 AM
The reason for the difference is the is confusion about whether FW is considered in play and targeted before her ability completes. With Gideon, the protection ability is on AUTO and has already fully resolved while Gideon is still definitely out of play. I was also one of the ones arguing that FW shouldn't be ignored by Zeb but I can also see how these situations aren't the same.

I considered this, but they end up being the same in that Gideon is not protected from HHI until he enters play.  So at that point, HHI is trying to Ignore Gideon and AUTO is trying to Protect him from HHI.  Which has precedence?  In the past, it would be ruled that the ability active first works - HHI. 
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Offline Kevinthedude

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #9 on: January 03, 2017, 01:21:04 PM »
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Quote from: jmhartz on January 03, 2017, 11:56:11 AM
Quote from: Kevinthedude on January 03, 2017, 11:22:21 AM
The reason for the difference is the is confusion about whether FW is considered in play and targeted before her ability completes. With Gideon, the protection ability is on AUTO and has already fully resolved while Gideon is still definitely out of play. I was also one of the ones arguing that FW shouldn't be ignored by Zeb but I can also see how these situations aren't the same.

I considered this, but they end up being the same in that Gideon is not protected from HHI until he enters play.  So at that point, HHI is trying to Ignore Gideon and AUTO is trying to Protect him from HHI.  Which has precedence?  In the past, it would be ruled that the ability active first works - HHI.

I was just pointing out why some people think this is different. I agree with you completely that they are the same. This is an area in great need of a REG update.
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kariusvega

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #10 on: January 03, 2017, 01:47:27 PM »
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They are different and the same which is why I still say zeb ignored wives and Gideon protected can rescue through hhi

The difference is the line of abilities and how either enter battle/precedence. The similarity is that both wives and Gideon would be ignored and completely unable to enter battle if they were both in play, similarly to before the pre block ignore rule change.

balaams disobedience doesn't work for the same reason fw isn't protected from being ignored, zeb/tgt/miriam etc ignore is an ongoing ability it doesn't recheck when an ec enters battle, it remains active. That's why even if you protected Gideon with auto if he is coming from territory he was already ignored and can't enter battle through hhi. wives is granted the protection when played from hand and she is still ignored by zeb

For clarification I am 99.9% positive this is how these would currently be ruled at nationals the .1% being something making Gideon more powerful because judges lack strength and are useless

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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Another HHI question
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2017, 08:43:32 AM »
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I agree that these must both have the same answer. I also think it should be the same as how Throne of David works. I actually can't recall which it is, but if an Uzzah from hand who completes allows you to play, Gideon and FW should be ignored. If not, they should be protected.
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