Author Topic: Discard Pile Removal Question (Read 1048 times)

ChristianSoldier · « **on:** December 29, 2016, 01:01:19 AM »

There are several cards that read something along the lines of "Remove all cards in a discard pile" with various exceptions, for example Sing and Praise from the 4th Edition Starter deck.

So if I have Hezekiah's Signet Ring active, what, if any effect does that have on a card like Sing and Praise.

Sing and Praise: Remove from the game all cards (except Heroes) in a discard pile.
Hezekiah's Signet Ring: No opponent may search any draw pile or discard pile.

Watchman · « **Reply #1 on:** December 29, 2016, 06:47:38 AM »

If you have HSR active then your opponent would not be able to use SaP as it requires your discard pile to be searched for heroes, unless your opponent knows specifically where that hero or where those heroes are (i.e., your opponent knows that the only hero in your discard pile is the very bottom card or very top card). A better card for your opponent to use would be Ashtaroth Worship as it discards the entire discard pile with no conditions.

browarod · « **Reply #2 on:** December 29, 2016, 09:27:20 AM »

To clarify, even if you know where the hero(es) are in the discard pile, Sing and Praise would still require a search and would be stopped by Hezekiah's Signet Ring.

Watchman · « **Reply #3 on:** December 29, 2016, 10:04:22 AM »

Quote from: Browa on December 29, 2016, 09:27:20 AM

To clarify, even if you know where the hero(es) are in the discard pile, Sing and Praise would still require a search and would be stopped by Hezekiah's Signet Ring.

If that's the case then what does this mean in the REG?

"An ability that targets a card in a deck, discard pile, or Artifact Pile that is not in a specific location in that pile, includes a search ability of the pile for the target."

The Guardian · « **Reply #4 on:** December 29, 2016, 10:59:15 AM »

I believe the two "specific locations" of the draw pile are the top X cards and the bottom X cards. For example, using Astrologers to reveal the top or bottom card is not a search even though it's targeting the deck. Likewise, Divination is not a search because it is targeting the top 6 cards. Theoretically, a card like Susanna could even reveal your entire deck if it's small enough at that point in the game, but that is still not a search ability, it is a reveal.

As for the Sing and Praise question, I can't recall if that changed with the new ruling in regards to the discard pile being a known location. I would need to check with other Elders.

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #5 on:** December 29, 2016, 01:30:45 PM »

Was it not ruled that you could look through your discard pile at anytime? If that is the case I would argue that makes it a known location.

The Guardian · « **Reply #6 on:** December 29, 2016, 02:19:16 PM »

That's what I was referring to.

The discard pile is a known location but Hezekiah's Signet Ring still restricts a player from using abilities like King Amon or Chariot of Fire that recur a specific type of card from the discard pile.

I am not certain if that affects how Sing and Praise interacts with the Discard pile.

Watchman · « **Reply #7 on:** December 29, 2016, 04:04:13 PM »

Quote from: The Guardian on December 29, 2016, 10:59:15 AM

I believe the two "specific locations" of the draw pile are the top X cards and the bottom X cards. For example, using Astrologers to reveal the top or bottom card is not a search even though it's targeting the deck. Likewise, Divination is not a search because it is targeting the top 6 cards. Theoretically, a card like Susanna could even reveal your entire deck if it's small enough at that point in the game, but that is still not a search ability, it is a reveal.

You're citing the draw pile, but what about how this rule affects the discard pile (as in the example I gave above when a hero is known to be the top and/or bottom card of a discard pile); or the artifact pile where I know the top card is a specific artifact that I want to target and was where my opponent left the card when he deactivated it?

ChristianSoldier · « **Reply #8 on:** January 05, 2017, 10:46:33 PM »

Any word on this?

Also in a related question, suppose I had Book of the Law active in a Temple and Hezekiah's Signet Ring active in my artifact pile and my opponent uses Ashtaroth Worship, since the Book of the Law protects the Good, Old Testament cards from being removed from the game, would that mean that Ashtaroth Worship now has a search ability?

Book of the Law
Protect your good O.T. Enhancements in play, draw pile, discard pile, and set-aside area from being removed from the game.

Ashtaroth Worship
Discard a good Enhancement or remove from the game all cards in a discard pile.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #9 on:** January 18, 2017, 08:46:08 AM »

Quote

The discard pile is a known location but Hezekiah's Signet Ring still restricts

Bonkers.

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Author Topic: Discard Pile Removal Question (Read 1048 times)

ChristianSoldier

Discard Pile Removal Question

Watchman

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browarod

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Watchman

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The Guardian

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Crashfach2002

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The Guardian

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Watchman

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ChristianSoldier

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Minister Polarius

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