Author Topic: Another Goliath question (Read 3082 times)

Josh · « **on:** June 08, 2011, 09:21:03 AM »

If I attack with a giant slayer, say, Abishai, and my opponent blocks with Goliath, can I add another hero to battle? Goliath says "Opponent may present a new hero", and he doesn't have a condition that no heroes be in battle. And the hero I add will be "new" whether or not a hero is already in battle.

Goliath (P)
Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Black • Ability: 10 / 10 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Return all Heroes in battle to territory (except giant-slayers). Opponent may present a new Hero. Negate all band, draw, and play abilities. Cannot be negated.

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #1 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:24:55 AM »

If nothing else is stopping it, Goliath's "Negate all band... abilities" would stop that from being possible, so no - you would not be able to add another hero.

Gabe · « **Reply #2 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:42:16 AM »

But Goliath is CBN so he cannot negate himself.

My instincts tell me that this works but I could be missing something.

Ken4Christ4ever · « **Reply #3 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:50:10 AM »

Oh, yeah... Good call!

And good question, jmhartz!

Egyptian · « **Reply #4 on:** June 08, 2011, 10:16:45 AM »

I would think the intent here is that the "Opponent may present a new hero" is triggered by Goliath kicking the old hero(es) out of battle. If Goliath doesn't kick your hero(es) out of battle for whatever reason (because they are giant-slayers or are protected from withdraw, etc.) then you don't get to "present a new hero." Just my two cents worth. :-)

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #5 on:** June 08, 2011, 11:05:16 AM »

Quote from: Egyptian on June 08, 2011, 10:16:45 AM

I would think the intent here is that the "Opponent may present a new hero" is triggered by Goliath kicking the old hero(es) out of battle. If Goliath doesn't kick your hero(es) out of battle for whatever reason (because they are giant-slayers or are protected from withdraw, etc.) then you don't get to "present a new hero." Just my two cents worth. :-)

That was, obviously, the intent, but intent doesn't matter (see Split Alter).

I don't see why this wouldn't work.

EmJayBee83 · « **Reply #6 on:** June 08, 2011, 11:55:20 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on June 08, 2011, 11:05:16 AM

That was, obviously, the intent, but intent doesn't matter (see Split Alter).

That's one Split Altar buck you owe the kitty. (Great idea from YMT, btw).

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #7 on:** June 08, 2011, 12:22:21 PM »

That was a legit Split Alter back up. Usually we just question the reasons behind a ruling change with it...

I'd like to see that post though, it really would be a great idea...

Daniel TS RED · « **Reply #8 on:** June 08, 2011, 12:26:12 PM »

It seems sense the old hero is still in battle, that a new hero cannot be presented. And sense banding is negated, a new hero cannot be banded in.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #9 on:** June 08, 2011, 12:28:36 PM »

Quote from: Daniel TS RED on June 08, 2011, 12:26:12 PM

It seems sense the old hero is still in battle, that a new hero cannot be presented. And sense banding is negated, a new hero cannot be banded in.

New=/=different. A new hero does enter battle. The hero is new to the battle. And, as Gabe mentioned, Goliath's ability is CBN, and he's the one with the banding ability, so it works.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #10 on:** June 08, 2011, 12:31:37 PM »

I agree that you should be able to bring an additional hero into battle...of course, if Abishai has initiative vs. Goliath, I'm not sure why you'd want to bring someone else in to give the initiative away...

SomeKittens · « **Reply #11 on:** June 08, 2011, 03:59:46 PM »

It wouldn't be a band ability in this case anyway.

galadgawyn · « **Reply #12 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:11:04 PM »

If you are talking about the new hero coming into battle when the original hero is still there, then it would be a banding ability. Anytime a card increase the number of characters on your side of the battle to greater than 1, then it is considered a banding ability in addition to whatever else it is.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #13 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:15:37 PM »

Really? That's the first I've heard of that. I've always ruled that "add to battle" was different then "band." (i.e. Unknown Nation)

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #14 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:19:20 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on June 08, 2011, 04:15:37 PM

Really? That's the first I've heard of that. I've always ruled that "add to battle" was different then "band." (i.e. Unknown Nation)

Unknown Nation is a band ability. However, things like 12FG can't negate it if it is in the artifact pile.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #15 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:26:30 PM »

Why not? Is this a "defaults to" issue? I thought cards defaulted to "in play"

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #16 on:** June 08, 2011, 04:32:53 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on June 08, 2011, 04:26:30 PM

Why not? Is this a "defaults to" issue? I thought cards defaulted to "in play"

Hmm. This same issue occurred during Warriors when TSA and the like negated... everything. I thought that was fixed by a rule, but apparently, they just added "in battle" to TSA, et all.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #17 on:** June 08, 2011, 06:36:27 PM »

FBTN characters like TSA, Moses, etc. negate all characters and enhancements in play, not just in battle. Otherwise the prevent part of their abilities wouldn't do much since characters aren't in battle until their SA's have had a chance to complete.

TFG would negate UN if he is still in battle, since he negates all banding, not just character and enhancement banding SA's. So he would stop The Silver Trumpets as well. I don't believe he would stop GoH though, since that is set aside.

Josh · « **Reply #18 on:** June 08, 2011, 08:15:03 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 08, 2011, 12:31:37 PM

I agree that you should be able to bring an additional hero into battle...of course, if Abishai has initiative vs. Goliath, I'm not sure why you'd want to bring someone else in to give the initiative away...

Well one thing I thought of was adding Asahel/Jael/Ehud to battle to add a second EC to battle... But since Goliath would still be in battle, would CTB abilities be negated on the second hero to enter battle? Is CTB "banding" if an EC is already in battle?

browarod · « **Reply #19 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:51:05 PM »

CTB played after an EC is in battle would kick that EC out of battle, I believe, so Asahel would kick Goliath out to choose someone else.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #20 on:** June 08, 2011, 09:59:33 PM »

Quote from: browarod on June 08, 2011, 09:51:05 PM

CTB played after an EC is in battle would kick that EC out of battle, I believe, so Asahel would kick Goliath out to choose someone else.

Give Goliath a taste of his own medicine.

browarod · « **Reply #21 on:** June 08, 2011, 10:01:55 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on June 08, 2011, 09:59:33 PM

Quote from: browarod on June 08, 2011, 09:51:05 PM
CTB played after an EC is in battle would kick that EC out of battle, I believe, so Asahel would kick Goliath out to choose someone else.
Give Goliath a taste of his own medicine.

Poetic justice, I say.

redemption99 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 08, 2011, 10:28:11 PM »

Quote from: browarod on June 08, 2011, 09:51:05 PM

CTB played after an EC is in battle would kick that EC out of battle, I believe, so Asahel would kick Goliath out to choose someone else.

unless that person has wall up

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #23 on:** June 09, 2011, 12:08:13 AM »

A quick nuance I want to nip in the bud. It is true that all "add to battle" abilities are banding abilities when a character is already in battle. However, not all abilities that add a character to battle when a character is in battle are banding abilities. The best (and perhaps) only example of this is exchange cards. Perpetual Priesthood will be unaffected by HHI.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #24 on:** June 09, 2011, 01:06:27 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on June 08, 2011, 06:36:27 PM

FBTN characters like TSA, Moses, etc. negate all characters and enhancements in play, not just in battle. Otherwise the prevent part of their abilities wouldn't do much since characters aren't in battle until their SA's have had a chance to complete.

Territory class enhancements played a turn or even a phase before like Herods Treachery CBN right?

News:

Author Topic: Another Goliath question (Read 3082 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

browarod

browarod

TheHobbit13