Author Topic: Can we get a list of the most played "Instead" cards and their "Play as" please?  (Read 1039 times)

Offline stefferweffer

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A couple of us will be judging local tournaments this Saturday, and we don't want to make any mistakes if this ability comes up, based on recent rulings.

The two I have read about recently are that 1) I am Holy + Chamber of Angels does not force opponent to discard anymore, and 2) that Judas' Plot causes New Jerusalem to go to the bottom of the deck instead of rescuing the lost soul.

Are there other popular "Instead" cards that I might see this weekend and will need to know how to rule on?  Thanks.

Offline Professoralstad

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2) that Judas' Plot causes New Jerusalem to go to the bottom of the deck instead of rescuing the lost soul.

Judas' Plot actually causes the dominant of the owner of JP's choice to go to the bottom without rescuing the LS, if SoG/NJ are both played. Most often players will choose New Jerusalem, since NJ would rescue a LS regardless of whether SoG does or not, but if SoG works and NJ goes to bottom, NJ becomes a useless dominant. There are certain cases where a player may choose SoG (if it rescues the other half of the 2-liner, etc.)

Other popular "instead" cards include:

Herod's Temple--The discard from hand and deck happens instead of the discard of the NT character. So anything that would trigger from a character being discarded does not trigger if the character is saved by HT. This is especially important for Grapes of Wrath, since the discard must occur for the shuffle to occur. So if you save the EC with HT, then nothing is discarded or shuffled, and because of the new errata (instituted for this reason) no new battle occurs.

Wandering Spirit--The place on bottom of deck happens instead of the discard. This is again important with Grapes, because nothing is discarded so nothing is shuffled. This does have the consequence of making Grapes essentially an AotL vs. a lone Wandering Spirit, but this will probably a fairly rare occurrance.

I can't think of any other cases that aren't obvious (like the deck discard cards that say to put LS's in play instead--obviously nothing is discarded there) but the general rule is that instead makes it so the first ability never happens for any reason, as long as the second ability (do this instead) can be carried out. If the instead ability can't be carried out (i.e. you can't discard a card from hand or X cards from deck for Herod's Temple) then the original ability is carried out.

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Offline stefferweffer

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Thanks.

For Lay Down Your Life, does the "instead" now mean that the discard of the hero in battle (like with Christian Martyr), did not happen, and that the battle is still ongoing?  Maybe it had always worked this way and I was just confused, but I had been playing that as the hero in battle returned to territory with the battle concluded.

Warrior_Monk

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Wandering Spirit--The place on bottom of deck happens instead of the discard. This is again important with Grapes, because nothing is discarded so nothing is shuffled. This does have the consequence of making Grapes essentially an AotL vs. a lone Wandering Spirit, but this will probably a fairly rare occurrance.
In addition, Elymas doesn't work with Wandering Spirit anymore.  :(

Offline YourMathTeacher

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...but the general rule is that instead makes it so the first ability never happens for any reason, as long as the second ability (do this instead) can be carried out.

I still don't understand why this is being treated as a new development. That is the only way I have ever ruled "instead" abilities. I'm glad the clarification has been applied as a "general rule," so that I am not making incorrect rulings (as is usually the case).

For Lay Down Your Life, does the "instead" now mean that the discard of the hero in battle (like with Christian Martyr), did not happen, and that the battle is still ongoing?

Assuming you mean the Disciples version, then yes the battle would continue.
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Offline Professoralstad

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Thanks.

For Lay Down Your Life, does the "instead" now mean that the discard of the hero in battle (like with Christian Martyr), did not happen, and that the battle is still ongoing?  Maybe it had always worked this way and I was just confused, but I had been playing that as the hero in battle returned to territory with the battle concluded.

It had always worked that way, but previously if there was an ability that would trigger based on a Hero being discarded, then it would trigger even if Lay Down Your Life was used and the Hero was never really discarded. That was the basis for the I am Holy/Chamber ruling.

...but the general rule is that instead makes it so the first ability never happens for any reason, as long as the second ability (do this instead) can be carried out.

I still don't understand why this is being treated as a new development. That is the only way I have ever ruled "instead" abilities. I'm glad the clarification has been applied as a "general rule," so that I am not making incorrect rulings (as is usually the case).

I guess you were just ahead of the curve.  ;)
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