Author Topic: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?  (Read 1669 times)

Offline Eragon5

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Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« on: April 27, 2015, 04:40:04 PM »
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How does Angry Mob (TEC) target characters? Do you flip all characters in question face down shuffle and then discard (I assume so)? And my real question, how does territory protection fit in? If I block eith Angry Mob, all characters are turned face down shuffled anf randomly selected, what if selected character is protected by a fortress or artifact? Is it a redo or does it have an implicit  regardless of protection?
Thanks in advance. :)
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2015, 04:47:47 PM »
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Characters can be protected from Angry Mob, but I can't remember if they just aren't viable targets (don't count them in possible random targets) or if they are just not discarded if they are randomly targeted.
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browarod

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #2 on: April 27, 2015, 05:08:44 PM »
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Angry Mob - Discard a random character from each territory. May band to Angry Mob.

I think it would depend on what type of protection the character has. If the character has blanket protection from opponents or protection from evil then they would be excluded from even being in the possible pool of targets.

If the character is simply protected from discard I think they could still be included in the random selection but if chosen they wouldn't be discarded.

Not 100% sure, though.

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #3 on: April 27, 2015, 06:15:11 PM »
+1
Protection stops a card from being targeted.  This card is a discard targeting them.  Characters protected from discard cannot be targeted, so it is a random selection of non-protected characters.

How you decide randomly is up to you, as long as it is actually random (I like picking up and shuffling if no counters or placed cards, and die rolls otherwise), but you cannot include among those options characters that are protected from discard.

browarod

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #4 on: April 27, 2015, 06:32:13 PM »
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I could also see that being the answer, so there ya go.

Offline yirgogo

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #5 on: April 27, 2015, 09:33:25 PM »
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This is one point where I see Protection different from Immune. Immune characters could be shuffled, and if targeted not effected, because of Immunity, but protected could not be shuffled.

Am I right with my interpretation?
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2015, 10:11:51 PM »
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This is one point where I see Protection different from Immune. Immune characters could be shuffled, and if targeted not effected, because of Immunity, but protected could not be shuffled.

Am I right with my interpretation?

I'm unclear where that is coming from, as protection and immunity are, essentially the same thing.  Both stop targeting, so no, you would not shuffle together an immune character (or otherwise consider it in the random selection).

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #7 on: June 01, 2015, 04:14:07 PM »
+1
Protection stops a card from being targeted.  This card is a discard targeting them.  Characters protected from discard cannot be targeted, so it is a random selection of non-protected characters.

How you decide randomly is up to you, as long as it is actually random (I like picking up and shuffling if no counters or placed cards, and die rolls otherwise), but you cannot include among those options characters that are protected from discard.

Sorry for dredging this up, but I have been catching up on a lot of threads here recently, and I don't agree with this ruling. I would interpret AM's ability as follows: Select a random character from each territory. Discard those characters. "Select" is not an ability to be protected from, so my interpretation would be that once the character (any character) is selected, then it is determined whether that character is eligible for discard. If so, great, if not, the mob failed to make a hit in that territory.

I didn't see any discussion on this on the other side of the boards, but if any other Elders disagree with my logic, or if there was a thread, then let me know.
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TheHobbit13

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #8 on: June 01, 2015, 04:30:11 PM »
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Select seems like it is targeting a character by definition. But this doesn't change your interpretation because a character protected from discard is not protected from selection. Which isn't an ability in this case but an action induced by an ability. Either way angry mob is obviously not simply discard-targeting them.

Offline Gabe

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2015, 04:56:34 PM »
+1
I didn't see any discussion on this on the other side of the boards, but if any other Elders disagree with my logic, or if there was a thread, then let me know.

I agree with Dayne that protect limits targets and selecting a card to discard is targeting it. That's why there was no dissent or discussion prior to your arrival.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2015, 06:38:56 PM »
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I agree with Gabe agreeing with me, since the REG is clear that protect limits targeting:

Quote from: The REG > Protect > How to Play
A card cannot be targeted by an ability from which it is protected.

I understand what you are saying, but we cannot add abilities to Angry Mob that are not on there.  There is no 'select' ability, the random selection is simply part of its targeting in the same way that "you may discard" or "opponent must discard" still only targets the card for discard, not the player to do the selection, and we do not consider that to be a separate step or effect.

If a card is protected from the discard on Angry Mob, it is not a valid selection for its targeting and is therefore not considered in the random selection, just like I cannot declare the target of my Edict to be a protected character; the selection is all still part of the targeting of discard, and thus can be protected from (targets are limited).

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Angry Mob has been riled up . . . now what?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2015, 07:08:49 PM »
+2
I certainly don't want to muddy the waters, so if you both agree that it is correct as in the original ruling, then I will support it. I would say that perhaps I didn't lay out my argument clearly. I am not trying to add an ability, but stating that a card has a random target inherently adds another step in completing the process of the ability, that is, determining the potential target. Rephrasing the ability as I did was only meant to explain what random means. My contention is that characters cannot be protected from dice/eeny-meenie/whatever other method used to randomly select a character. At no point during the random determination is Angry Mob targeting the character, it only begins the process of determining the only character that could be the potential target. Once the potential target is selected at random, then it is determined whether Angry Mob can target the card, and if it can, it does.

Like I said, I just wanted to clarify my position rather than make this a big issue. So, for ruling purposes, please use the ruling by Redoubter, supported by Gabe. This argument will just remain here as a reference, if it is ever brought up again and deemed worthy to revisit.

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