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Author Topic: Abraham's Descendants with Curses  (Read 1365 times)

Warrior_Monk

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Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« on: April 02, 2013, 09:18:33 PM »
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I activate Given over to Egypt on Pithom to d/c the top card of my opponent's deck. I do some actions, and then I play Abraham's Descendants to take Given over to Egypt back in my hand. Can I now activate it on my artifact pile to d/c another card?
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 09:25:02 PM »
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Quote from: Westy on April 02, 2013, 09:18:33 PM
I activate Given over to Egypt on Pithom to d/c the top card of my opponent's deck. I do some actions, and then I play Abraham's Descendants to take Given over to Egypt back in my hand. Can I now activate it on my artifact pile to d/c another card?

I don't believe so.  I'm fairly certain that the ruling has been that each artifact is 'unique' and only one of each artifact can be activated each turn.  Thought I saw this recently, but I'm not sure where...

Regardless, this is another example of why it would be good to have an Artifact Phase, or that the very least require that all artifact actions take place at the same time.
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Offline Noah

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 09:28:36 PM »
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 09:46:26 PM »
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Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on April 02, 2013, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
Thought I saw this recently, but I'm not sure where...

This could have been where you saw it. http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/multiple-artifacts-32336/msg502429/#msg502429
That may be what he's referring to, but it doesn't quite answer this question. Just because artifacts are unique doesn't mean they can't be activated twice--it just means there can't be two that you control at one time. You can't activate the same artifact twice in the sense that you can't have two of the same artifact activated.  I know unique characters can only enter battle once per turn, but artifacts are obviously a different case.

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
Quote from: Westy on April 02, 2013, 09:18:33 PM
I activate Given over to Egypt on Pithom to d/c the top card of my opponent's deck. I do some actions, and then I play Abraham's Descendants to take Given over to Egypt back in my hand. Can I now activate it on my artifact pile to d/c another card?

I don't believe so.  I'm fairly certain that the ruling has been that each artifact is 'unique' and only one of each artifact can be activated each turn.  Thought I saw this recently, but I'm not sure where...

Regardless, this is another example of why it would be good to have an Artifact Phase, or that the very least require that all artifact actions take place at the same time.
I am very much for an Artifact Phase.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 09:54:53 PM »
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Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on April 02, 2013, 09:28:36 PM
Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2013, 09:25:02 PM
Thought I saw this recently, but I'm not sure where...

This could have been where you saw it. http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/multiple-artifacts-32336/msg502429/#msg502429

Why does your link start with FTP?  :o  Here's the link for anyone who didn't notice that part.

But that's not the thread I was referring to, I was misremembering the conversation that happened in this thread, which didn't answer this question.  The Elders will have to rule on this, but I'm really hoping to hear more about this last part in the thread:

Quote from: The Guardian on March 04, 2013, 07:37:25 PM
Quote
2. Artifact activation becomes its own phase in between Upkeep and Prep (or is the required first step of Prep).

This idea was discussed as a possibility amongst several elders at the T2 Only. I am hoping that discussion will continue here on the forum with other Elders who were not present.
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Offline Noah

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #5 on: April 03, 2013, 09:39:03 AM »
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Why does your link start with FTP?

I didn't now how to get rid of it and it was late.  :P

Quote
I am very much for an Artifact Phase.

 +1
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Offline Josh

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #6 on: April 03, 2013, 11:53:39 AM »
+1
Technically you can't discard a second card, because you end up not discarding a card the first time.  Abe's Kids interrupts the curse or EE, which will undo the discard. 

Now, whether you can activate it a second time on your art pile...  It's questions like this that beg for an Art phase.
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Offline Red

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2013, 12:13:51 PM »
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art phase should be directly AFTER prep.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 12:26:47 PM »
+1
Quote from: Red on April 03, 2013, 12:13:51 PM
art phase should be directly BEFORE prep.
FTFY
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Chris

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 12:28:50 PM »
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Quote from: Westy on April 03, 2013, 12:26:47 PM
Quote from: Red on April 03, 2013, 12:13:51 PM
art phase should be directly BEFORE prep.
FTFY

I agree with this. It hurts speed.
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Offline Josh

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 12:33:52 PM »
+1
Quote from: Westy on April 03, 2013, 12:26:47 PM
Quote from: Red on April 03, 2013, 12:13:51 PM
art phase should be directly BEFORE prep.
FTFY

This.  Arts should happen before Prep.  Your Art decision should impact your Prep Phase. 
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Offline Red

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 02:57:18 PM »
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You should be able to pick up an opponet's curse with descendant and play it same turn. And how would pre prep art phase hurt speed? After would hurt it more frankly.
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Chris

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2013, 03:01:20 PM »
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Quote from: Red on April 03, 2013, 02:57:18 PM
You should be able to pick up an opponet's curse with descendant and play it same turn. And how would pre prep art phase hurt speed? After would hurt it more frankly.

After wouldn't hurt speed in the slightest. Before means that you have to make a decision regarding the artifact you want to play before you (potentially) know all of the options you'll have. I have prep phases where I draw 7+ cards, and many of my decks are artifact-heavy; having to make a decision (especially regarding CwD for obvious reasons) on what to activate earlier encourages foresight. It requires more critical thinking because you have to think further ahead. It's not something that will really hurt lower level players because it won't matter as much, but I'm favor of anything that encourages more strategy at top tables.
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Offline Red

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Re: Abraham's Descendants with Curses
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2013, 03:06:46 PM »
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Quote from: Chris on April 03, 2013, 03:01:20 PM
Quote from: Red on April 03, 2013, 02:57:18 PM
You should be able to pick up an opponet's curse with descendant and play it same turn. And how would pre prep art phase hurt speed? After would hurt it more frankly.

After wouldn't hurt speed in the slightest. Before means that you have to make a decision regarding the artifact you want to play before you (potentially) know all of the options you'll have. I have prep phases where I draw 7+ cards, and many of my decks are artifact-heavy; having to make a decision (especially regarding CwD for obvious reasons) on what to activate earlier encourages foresight. It requires more critical thinking because you have to think further ahead. It's not something that will really hurt lower level players because it won't matter as much, but I'm favor of anything that encourages more strategy at top tables.
The increase in strategy is neligible. If that's the reason for before prep art phase we should really be looking at changing the definition of ignore and increasing defense's strength instead.
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