Author Topic: ANE (A New Errata) (Read 7252 times)

Gabe · « **on:** March 21, 2013, 11:04:23 PM »

The second errata issued to A New Beginning has at least one major flaw that allows it to be exploited with Book of the Law. Rob and the elders became aware of this at Nationals 2012. We decided to leave things as they were until it proved to be problematic. At the T2 only tournament, "Combo Master Kirk Dennison" successfully abused the loophole created by faulty wording in our errata.

Quote from: old errata

If making a rescue attempt, remove this card from the game to shuffle all cards in play, set aside areas, and hands into decks. End the battle. All players draw 8. End the turn. Begin a new turn.

After some discussion about what the best course of action will be to fix yet another problem with the most errata'd card in Redemption, the elders have agreed unanimously to issue the following new errata to A New Beginning:

Quote from: new errata

If making a rescue attempt, remove this card from the game to shuffle all cards in play, set aside areas, and hands. If no Heroes remain in battle, end the battle, all players draw 8, and you begin a new turn.

This has been updated on the official errata thread.

P.S. - please don't shoot the messenger

Chris · « **Reply #1 on:** March 21, 2013, 11:07:45 PM »

I just really appreciate the topic title, mostly. Thanks for the update Gabe, and may the erratas be ever in your favor.

Josh · « **Reply #2 on:** March 21, 2013, 11:08:24 PM »

Does ANB shuffle face-down artifacts?

TheJaylor · « **Reply #3 on:** March 21, 2013, 11:51:42 PM »

Quote from: jmhartz on March 21, 2013, 11:08:24 PM

Does ANB shuffle face-down artifacts?

Yes.

TheKarazyvicePresidentRR · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:30:45 AM »

So ANB for most Errata'd card forever?

Drrek · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:55:44 AM »

Heheheh, glad I pointed out the base of this combo last year. Love having played a part in getting a new errata.

Redoubter · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:56:48 AM »

Quote from: KoalaKingoFA on March 21, 2013, 11:51:42 PM

Quote from: jmhartz on March 21, 2013, 11:08:24 PM
Does ANB shuffle face-down artifacts?
Yes.

Just throwing out there that, since the wording is being redone anyway, it would probably be advantageous to add "and artifact piles" to the wording above. It still does not specifically target artifact piles, which are not "in play", but the standard ruling is still that those cards are shuffled. I think that's the only thing that is still in contention about this card, so just throwing out there that we could nip that in the bud too...

Please don't shoot this messenger either...

Master KChief · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2013, 03:38:12 AM »

Building an all-artifact deck. See you next T2.

Korunks · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2013, 07:43:12 AM »

Since it is being Errated again can we please fix the inconsistency with this card targeting Artifact Piles and not specifying it does? When it was brought up in the past that ANB could shuffle artifact piles but split altar couldn't even though they contain the same wording it was brushed off. Can we fix it now please, since you are making an errata any way?

Josh · « **Reply #9 on:** March 22, 2013, 08:04:45 AM »

Quote from: Chris on March 21, 2013, 11:07:45 PM

I just really appreciate the topic title, mostly.

When I saw the title, I stopped reading after ANE (mostly to try and figure out what it meant). I came up with "A New Ending", being a pun on "A New Beginning" and also indicating that this is the "errata to end all erratas" for ANB.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #10 on:** March 22, 2013, 09:46:02 AM »

Well I guess it is time to unveil my deck that took the T2 only by storm.

Kirk

lp670sv · « **Reply #11 on:** March 22, 2013, 09:50:21 AM »

Wait, didn't I or SomeKittens already bring this up or did we successfully keep it to ourselves in hopes of some day using it in a tournament? Cause he and I noticed that loophole back when we were active players and exploited it in personal games frequently.

Edit: nevermind, it wasn't the *exact* problem with the errata I was thinking of

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #12 on:** March 22, 2013, 10:00:40 AM »

You did post on this thread. I was just the first to experience tournament success with it.

Funny how it seems that once players come up with a great idea that the deck is fine until it wins a major tournament. Then changes happen (rule change or errata) to nerf that deck. Said no one concerning TGT ever but yes concerning T2 combo decks.

Kirk

STAMP · « **Reply #13 on:** March 22, 2013, 10:28:54 AM »

I quit.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #14 on:** March 22, 2013, 10:32:03 AM »

Quote from: STAMP on March 22, 2013, 10:28:54 AM

I quit.

Way to go guys, it worked!

But STAMP, you shouldn't look at it as a new errata so much as the errata that should have been made in the first place...

Josh · « **Reply #15 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:18:03 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 22, 2013, 03:38:12 AM

Building an all-artifact deck. See you next T2.

The deck combines the two best strategies for a T2 deck: Characterless and ANB!

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #16 on:** March 22, 2013, 12:41:21 PM »

Quote from: Korunks on March 22, 2013, 07:43:12 AM

Since it is being Errated again can we please fix the inconsistency with this card targeting Artifact Piles and not specifying it does? When it was brought up in the past that ANB could shuffle artifact piles but split altar couldn't even though they contain the same wording it was brushed off. Can we fix it now please, since you are making an errata any way?

this

Master KChief · « **Reply #17 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:24:24 PM »

Why is it when a card is exploited for T2 it's immediately addressed with an errata, but when a card is exploited for T1 it isn't or we just try to print lolcounters in the next set? #doublestandard

Professoralstad · « **Reply #18 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:36:46 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 22, 2013, 05:24:24 PM

Why is it when a card is exploited for T2 it's immediately addressed with an errata, but when a card is exploited for T1 it isn't or we just try to print lolcounters in the next set? #doublestandard

FWIW, Kirk's combo could have worked just as well in T1 with a few tweaks. The main reason these combos generally aren't as reliable in T1 is that you can less afford to handle a bad early draw since your opponent has to rescue two fewer LS's. Also, the only card that has really been errata'd specifically for T2 combos (that I can think of) is ANB, and that's simply because of the various ways it has been abused to not let your opponent play the game. When you refer to broken cards in T1, I assume you mean TGT and/or Thaddeus. And yeah, it did take a few sets (primarily because certain counters were perhaps tested as being more useful than they ended up being) awhile, but I guess I wouldn't call Siege Army or CwD lolcounters.

Red · « **Reply #19 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:40:07 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2013, 05:36:46 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on March 22, 2013, 05:24:24 PM
Why is it when a card is exploited for T2 it's immediately addressed with an errata, but when a card is exploited for T1 it isn't or we just try to print lolcounters in the next set? #doublestandard

FWIW, Kirk's combo could have worked just as well in T1 with a few tweaks. The main reason these combos generally aren't as reliable in T1 is that you can less afford to handle a bad early draw since your opponent has to rescue two fewer LS's. Also, the only card that has really been errata'd specifically for T2 combos (that I can think of) is ANB, and that's simply because of the various ways it has been abused to not let your opponent play the game. When you refer to broken cards in T1, I assume you mean TGT and/or Thaddeus. And yeah, it did take a few sets (primarily because certain counters were perhaps tested as being more useful than they ended up being) awhile, but I guess I wouldn't call Siege Army or CwD lolcounters.

Highway, Trust, Stillness? Sin in the camp? Don't say that ANB is the ONLY card.

Chris · « **Reply #20 on:** March 22, 2013, 05:53:03 PM »

Can someone explain to me why the switch from this:

Quote

ALL players shuffle ALL cards in the field of play, set-aside areas and their hands (except this one) back into their draw pile. Only cards in Land of Redemption and discard piles remain. ALL players Draw 8 new cards. Holder may begin a new turn.

To this:

Quote

If making a rescue attempt, remove this card from the game to shuffle all cards in play, set aside areas, and hands. If no Heroes remain in battle, end the battle, all players draw 8, and you begin a new turn.

Is a better option than just banning the card? I recognize all the reasons for why people are opposed to banning, but as it stands, the card has so many extra stipulations on it (the biggest one being the remove from the game clause) that any new player is going to be completely baffled by it anyway.

Captain Kirk · « **Reply #21 on:** March 22, 2013, 06:04:37 PM »

Quote from: Red on March 22, 2013, 05:40:07 PM

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2013, 05:36:46 PM
Quote from: Master KChief on March 22, 2013, 05:24:24 PM
Why is it when a card is exploited for T2 it's immediately addressed with an errata, but when a card is exploited for T1 it isn't or we just try to print lolcounters in the next set? #doublestandard

FWIW, Kirk's combo could have worked just as well in T1 with a few tweaks. The main reason these combos generally aren't as reliable in T1 is that you can less afford to handle a bad early draw since your opponent has to rescue two fewer LS's. Also, the only card that has really been errata'd specifically for T2 combos (that I can think of) is ANB, and that's simply because of the various ways it has been abused to not let your opponent play the game. When you refer to broken cards in T1, I assume you mean TGT and/or Thaddeus. And yeah, it did take a few sets (primarily because certain counters were perhaps tested as being more useful than they ended up being) awhile, but I guess I wouldn't call Siege Army or CwD lolcounters.
Highway, Trust, Stillness? Sin in the camp? Don't say that ANB is the ONLY card.

Also see healing rule change and hand limit. (T2 combo decks prompted this).

Kirk

Master KChief · « **Reply #22 on:** March 22, 2013, 06:43:15 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 22, 2013, 05:36:46 PM

When you refer to broken cards in T1, I assume you mean TGT and/or Thaddeus.

I was thinking of Oak specifically when I wrote that, but yes, those are also valid.

Quote

And yeah, it did take a few sets (primarily because certain counters were perhaps tested as being more useful than they ended up being) awhile, but I guess I wouldn't call Siege Army or CwD lolcounters.

ASA is nigh useless against TGT since territory sniping is what they do best and he'll never have a chance to be dropped. Much less sustain a specific identifier in territory to trigger his ability. TGT still swings easily under CwD and is prone to oft-used utility cards like CapArk, DoN, and Passover Hymn/Live Coal used in battle.

YourMathTeacher · « **Reply #23 on:** March 22, 2013, 08:06:34 PM »

Do they even play T1 in Minnesota?

browarod · « **Reply #24 on:** March 22, 2013, 08:20:10 PM »

I feel like T1 and T2 in Redemption are like PvE and PvP in MMOs respectively. People find ways to abuse things in PvP (T2) and the designers nerf them (usually with hotfixes, i.e.: erratas) with the side-effect of nerfing PvE (T1), but when something outperforms other things in PvE (T1) they call it "that's just how it is" and don't re-balance until the next patch (expansion).

News:

Author Topic: ANE (A New Errata) (Read 7252 times)

Chris

Chris

browarod