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Author Topic: Ambush the City and Moses  (Read 4108 times)

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2012, 01:43:58 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 16, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
It's a new phase within another phase. Abilities don't end when a new phase starts, then end when the current phase ends.

Actually, abilities that aren't specifically ongoing continuously or until the end of the turn are only active in the phase they activated.  If a new battle phase is started, not sure that it follows that anything from the other phase carries over by that precedent.
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browarod

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2012, 01:48:00 PM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on May 16, 2012, 01:43:58 PM
Actually, abilities that aren't specifically ongoing continuously or until the end of the turn are only active in the phase they activated.
That's correct. And the initial battle phase that AtC was played in is still going, so abilities active for that phase remain active.
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Offline Redoubter

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2012, 02:00:31 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 16, 2012, 01:48:00 PM
Quote from: Redoubter on May 16, 2012, 01:43:58 PM
Actually, abilities that aren't specifically ongoing continuously or until the end of the turn are only active in the phase they activated.
That's correct. And the initial battle phase that AtC was played in is still going, so abilities active for that phase remain active.

Again, I can see both sides.  Just debating this side for lack of support ;)

The wording of the card though has an entirely new battle phase begin, and the other one is on hold.  Whatever was happening in that battle is not currently in play or active, the whole thing was set aside to be continued later based on the wording.  This new battle is just that: A new battle phase.  Abilities don't continue from one phase to the next if Grapes is played, and shouldn't in this case either.
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browarod

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2012, 02:05:05 PM »
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There's a difference between something that specifically removes all characters from battle and ends the battle (Grapes) and a card that pauses a battle, carries out a new battle, then resumes the original battle (AtC). One creates a new phase after one that just ended, the other creates a new phase within the phase that does NOT end. I really don't see why they should be treated the same when they do very different things, but perhaps you can enlighten me as to your thinking.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 02:16:33 PM by browarod »
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2012, 02:19:31 PM »
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Idk, I'm too confused... Couldn't they just put it that all Battles go on during the same battle phase (unless a card gives u another battle phase)?
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They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline Drrek

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #30 on: May 16, 2012, 02:52:11 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 16, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
Quote from: Redoubter on May 16, 2012, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: browarod on May 16, 2012, 12:48:28 AM
If Moses was in the original battle then I believe his FBTN would carry into AtC's new battle phase since that battle phase is nested inside the original phase which means Moses' effect hasn't ended yet. That is the difference between him originating in the first battle versus the second battle.

Based on it being a new battle phase (arguing that side just because I can see both sides), it shouldn't.  If it is a different phase as SirNobody suggests, then FBTN would not transfer, just like he suggests FBTN from the second battle would not transfer.  Different phase, so no shared abilities.
It's a new phase within another phase. Abilities don't end when a new phase starts, then end when the current phase ends. There is nothing about starting a new phase while one is ongoing that would stop Moses' ability which is why it carries over into the second battle phase. However, the second phase does actually end before the first resumes so that's why Moses' ability when used in the second battle ends after the second battle phase completes and doesn't carry back to the original, first phase.

I feel like this ruling is at least somewhat needlessly complicated.
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #31 on: May 16, 2012, 03:11:53 PM »
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I agree, thats why I suggest suggest having all of them in the same battle phase no matter what.
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They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

browarod

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2012, 06:10:27 PM »
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Quote from: megamanlan on May 16, 2012, 03:11:53 PM
I agree, thats why I suggest suggest having all of them in the same battle phase no matter what.
In that case, Moses would definitely be active in the second battle. ;)
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Offline megamanlan

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2012, 06:27:07 PM »
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Yep, it would be a lot simpler.
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They seem pretty lame as fighters maybe we should challenge them to a dance off or a redemption game

Offline The M

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2012, 07:03:13 PM »
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Quote from: browarod on May 16, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
Quote from: Redoubter on May 16, 2012, 01:20:58 AM
Quote from: browarod on May 16, 2012, 12:48:28 AM
If Moses was in the original battle then I believe his FBTN would carry into AtC's new battle phase since that battle phase is nested inside the original phase which means Moses' effect hasn't ended yet. That is the difference between him originating in the first battle versus the second battle.

Based on it being a new battle phase (arguing that side just because I can see both sides), it shouldn't.  If it is a different phase as SirNobody suggests, then FBTN would not transfer, just like he suggests FBTN from the second battle would not transfer.  Different phase, so no shared abilities.
It's a new phase within another phase. Abilities don't end when a new phase starts, then end when the current phase ends. There is nothing about starting a new phase while one is ongoing that would stop Moses' ability which is why it carries over into the second battle phase. However, the second phase does actually end before the first resumes so that's why Moses' ability when used in the second battle ends after the second battle phase completes and doesn't carry back to the original, first phase.

PHASECEPTION

I think this does kind of complicate things and would agree with mega.
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browarod

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Re: Ambush the City and Moses
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2012, 07:59:13 PM »
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Either way, the answer to the question is that Moses' ability from the first battle carries over to the new battle when Ambush the City is played.
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