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Someone sets their hero aside with Ambush.  Character comes back to territory and then enters battle.  Here's where I get a little confused.  I put in an EC to block.  As has been determined on other threads, part of blocking is using the SA of the EC and EH on that character.  (Using the SA happens immediately when blockers is presented)  Does this mean that the SA of the EC would happen before the Hero is turned face up?

Ambush - Type: Hero Enh. • Brigade: Red • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: Set aside a male Hero (face down) from your hand for one turn. Hero returns to territory face down. Hero enters battle face down with access to any site. When opponent presents an Evil Character in battle, Hero is flipped face up. • Play As: Set aside a male Hero (face down) from your hand for one turn. Hero returns to territory face down. Hero enters battle face down with access to any site. When opponent presents an Evil Character in battle or chooses not to block, Hero is flipped face up. • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: Joshua 8:2 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Common)

Also, can you Christian Martyr an Ambushed Hero?

Yes to the first.  No to the second.

I believe that you can't target face-down cards... it's just a rule.

For example, you cannot play aotl on an evil character in "the darkness." However, if you discarded the fortress, the character would go with it. 

LOL... I might have been wrong about that one. I never used it in a tournament. 

So what happens if a Ambushed guy goes into battle, a guy comes in with Egyptian Charioteers with Egyptian Horses on and plays Wonders Forgotten.  The battle ends before the Hero is flipped.  Then what happens?



Egyptian Charioteers - Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 6 / 8 • Class: Warrior • Special Ability: Prevent the special ability of the next enhancement opponent plays this battle. • Identifiers: Generic OT Male Human, Egypt, Fought Earthly Battle • Verse: Exodus 14:7 • Availability: H Deck

Egyptian Horses - Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 2 / 2 • Class: Weapon • Special Ability: Interrupt the battle and draw two cards. If used by an Egyptian (except an archer), you may play an evil Enhancement. • Attributes: Depicts a Weapon • Identifiers: OT, Depicts a Weapon • Verse: Exodus 14:9 • Availability: Rock of Ages (Set 17)

Wonders Forgotten - Type: Evil Enh. • Brigade: Gold • Ability: 0 / 4 • Class: None • Special Ability: Select up to four good cards from one player’s discard pile and remove them from the game. The battle immediately ends. Cannot be negated • Identifiers: None • Verse: Psalms 78:11 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Common)

I'm not convinced the Ambushed Hero would not still flip over to do a numerical comparison.  After all, even if the Hero is unblocked, you still flip it over to verify access to Lost Soul cards and such.

Yes. Because of the way it usually functions, people think of it as just a nuke that arrests everything. But what it really does is just force the battle into resolution immediately, during which time the Hero would be flipped up.

I'm not convinced the Ambushed Hero would not still flip over to do a numerical comparison.  After all, even if the Hero is unblocked, you still flip it over to verify access to Lost Soul cards and such.

Actually, I am not convinced that you should ever flip it up if unblocked.  The SA on Ambushed says to only flip it up after being blocked.  If you aren't blocked, then you shouldn't flip.  I think your opponent has to take your word that you are a female (to rescue the female only LS), until they block you later and see your hero.

Quote from: The Schaef on April 22, 2009, 11:29:45 PM

I'm not convinced the Ambushed Hero would not still flip over to do a numerical comparison.  After all, even if the Hero is unblocked, you still flip it over to verify access to Lost Soul cards and such.

Actually, I am not convinced that you should ever flip it up if unblocked.  The SA on Ambushed says to only flip it up after being blocked.  If you aren't blocked, then you shouldn't flip.  I think your opponent has to take your word that you are a female (to rescue the female only LS), until they block you later and see your hero.

I played the Star Trek: Customizable Card Game for a long time, and they had a card icon called Hidden Agenda, where the card came into play face-down (and it had to be a certain type of card), then it was flipped up later in the game when you wanted to use its ability. However, if you ever lied about the card being Hidden Agenda, then you lost the game (for instance, calling out Hidden Agenda when the card didn't actually have the icon). Even if you won the game, you would still have to reveal the card to verify it had the Hidden Agenda icon. If you didn't, you still lost the game. So in the case of Ambush, if it doesn't specifically say to reveal your opponent's hero if he/she is unblocked, then even if the hero is never flipped over in the course of the game, then you could always verify it later to make sure the Lost Souls were rescued legally.

I don't think I need to explain to you the potential problems that would cause.

Actually, I would appreciate an explanation of the potential problems this would cause.  It seems to me that it Fresno's idea would work.  Trust the person that the face down card is a female until the next battle it enters or the end of the game, and then check to make sure.  If they cheated, they lose.  Seems pretty simple.

A face down hero can't rescue anything.  It is flipped up at resolution if not blocked.

I'm fine if this is the ruling for this card.  But if so, then this needs to be spelled out in a Play As, because it is not clear based on the SA on the card.

Actually, I would appreciate an explanation of the potential problems this would cause.  It seems to me that it Fresno's idea would work.  Trust the person that the face down card is a female until the next battle it enters or the end of the game, and then check to make sure.

And people are going to remember who rescued whom with what?  Especially in T2 multiplayer?

This is very simple.  Several years ago it was ruled that any time you search for a card more specific than "a card", you must show players the card to verify you are searching for the correct type of card.  I argued against this ruling, but open information to discourage cheating was the rule and the reason.  That will apply here as well.

Ok, so here's what's been determined.

1. An evil character blocking an Ambushed hero gets to use his SA first.
2. Face-down cards cannot be targeted.
3. The hero is always flipped up during battle resolution, no matter how you get there. (ie. battle immediately ends, unblocked)

That's all seemed like the most important points and the things I was looking for when starting this thread.  This all right?

Seems that way, but a question I would have is does a Hero have to wait until Battle Resolution (when he's flipped up) in order to use his SA?

For Prof... I think you said something about a female. But you can only set aside males.