Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Okay, here's my support:

Gen 11:31  And Terah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, and Sarai his daughter in law, his son Abram's wife; and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan; and they came unto Haran, and dwelt there.

Gen 15:7  And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it

So, Abram is Chaldean, the bible says so.

Isa 13:19  And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.

Jer 50:1  The word that the LORD spake against Babylon against the land of the Chaldeans by Jeremiah the prophet.

And there is also the fact that the card Chaldeans carries the Babylonian identifier.

I think this might be one of those things where Babylonian is an evil identifier of some sort like The Magi aren't Magicians because they are heroes, and Magician is an "evil" identifier.

I think this might be one of those things where Babylonian is an evil identifier of some sort like The Magi aren't Magicians because they are heroes, and Magician is an "evil" identifier.

That's racist.

Just occurred to me, but this applies to Lot as well.

U Forgot Egyptians and Greeks.
I don't think it would matter, but I'd suggest giving Babylonian identifiers to Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-Nego.

Ittai is a Philistine and he is a Hero.

My question is what would be gained by Abraham gaining the Babylonian identifier?

Iron Pan fun in a Genesis deck? An actual reason to use Abram/Abraham? lol

Why does something have to have a big, positive impact on the game in order for someone to want an oversight corrected?

Quote from: browarod on April 20, 2012, 09:37:34 AM

Quote from: Arrthoa on April 20, 2012, 08:57:37 AM

My question is what would be gained by Abraham gaining the Babylonian identifier?

Iron Pan fun in a Genesis deck? An actual reason to use Abram/Abraham? lol

So he would still need to make a successful RA to be Abraham and Iron Pan stops some of Genesis's best abilities

The issue is accuracy, not necessarily gameplay issues.

For the record, I disagree with Abraham being Babylonian for the same reason I disagree with the Tower of Babel having any Babylonian connotations.

Actually, there has been archeological and historical evidence to show the the ruler that built Babel, Nimrod, is actually an ancestor of the people who became known as the Babylonians. But I still don't agree that Abe should exactly have a Babylonian Identifier, Remember, the Chaldeans were actually in the land before the Babylonians, and were a separate nation that the Babylonians took over when they created their empire.
Although, I'd be okay with Abe getting a Cannanite Identifier, if he doesn't already have one.

I'm well aware of why some people would like anything regarding the Tower of Babel to be considered Babylonian, however, I still disagree with the reasoning, the main one being that Babylon, in a historical sense, is still a different entity. The ancestral past of Babylon may be rooted in the Tower of Babel,  but that doesn't make the Tower of Babel itself Babylonian.

Being an ancestor is different than actually being a part of that culture. I would vehemently argue against Nimrod being Babylonian.

The Babylonian Empire is widely considered to have been founded around 1792 BC, while the earliest date for the great flood is around 2348 BC. I mention the flood for two reasons: First, it was just prior to the flood that God opted to limit the life of men to 120 years, which becomes relevant, because Nimrod was the grandson of Ham, one of Noah's sons. This means that Nimrod's death would have occurred no later than 1988 BC (this is a really rough figure using the broadest of estimations), just under 200 years before the founding of the Babylonian Empire (which was itself constructed from the Akkadian Empire). The reason I note all this is because I want to point out that it is quite a bit different than Abraham being an Israelite. This is a moot point because a quick check of the REG and Visualizer indicate (correctly, in my opinion) that he is not one for gameplay purposes. At any rate, if a Nimrod card ever is printed, I have my argument for why it should be Babylonian to copy/paste.

The Babylonian Empire is widely considered to have been founded around 1792 BC, while the earliest date for the great flood is around 2348 BC. I mention the flood for two reasons: First, it was just prior to the flood that God opted to limit the life of men to 120 years, which becomes relevant, because Nimrod was the grandson of Ham, one of Noah's sons. This means that Nimrod's death would have occurred no later than 1988 BC (this is a really rough figure using the broadest of estimations), just under 200 years before the founding of the Babylonian Empire (which was itself constructed from the Akkadian Empire). The reason I note all this is because I want to point out that it is quite a bit different than Abraham being an Israelite. This is a moot point because a quick check of the REG and Visualizer indicate (correctly, in my opinion) that he is not one for gameplay purposes. At any rate, if a Nimrod card ever is printed, I have my argument for why it should be Babylonian to copy/paste.

Firstly, you are right in saying that by the time the Babylonian kingdom began, Nimrod was dead.

Secondly, the first Babylonian Dynasty extended from 1894 to about 1595. While Hammurabi, who I believe is the person you're thinking about, fits the 1750 mark, he was the sixth king of the first Dynasty.

Thirdly, the extended Lifespans lasted well past the flood:
Gen 23:1  And Sarah was an hundred and seven and twenty years old: these were the years of the life of Sarah.
Gen 25:7  And these are the days of the years of Abraham's life which he lived, an hundred threescore and fifteen years.
Gen 35:28  And the days of Isaac were an hundred and fourscore years.
Gen 47:28  And Jacob lived in the land of Egypt seventeen years: so the whole age of Jacob was an hundred forty and seven years.