Cactus Game Design Message Boards
Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: theselfevident on June 28, 2011, 10:07:26 AM
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(Let me preface this before the hailstorm of upheaval begins as in the "Wool Fleece" thread: I play the game and have for quite some time. I am not an Elder. I am not an authority. However, I am a consumer of this product, and I am insightful.)
The Story:I was playing a game with a fellow "Redemptioner" and I played a card. Someone told me the card is not played the way it is written or explained in the REG and that the REG was not up to date nor was the rulebook (basically said they were invalid). Before I played this game, I read the Rulebook and the REG on the cards I put in my deck assuming that it was correct.
The Observation: Someone told me that rulings from the Elders made the REG and Rulebook invalid and directed me to ask the Elders, which in the middle of the game which made the game very annoying to play and consumed time while playing the game. Also, not saying that my opponent did this, someone could be dishonest in the middle of a game and without a quick response, someone could get cheated. (before I get a litany of responses, please don't make this an issue as this is my observation.)
The Suggestion: If rulings are going to be made outside of the Rulebook and REG, please make readily available the rulings in an easy and quick manner (such as the Rulebook and REG). This will avoid controversy and frustration and threads like "Wool Fleece". Just a suggestion.
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Look at the top two threads here (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/redemption-official-rules/).
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Let me guess. Was it Split Altar, or ANB? ;D
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Let me guess. Was it Split Altar, or ANB? ;D
It was Ark of the Covenant...
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Let me start out by saying that this is NOT by any means a complaint or flame, just my thoughts on this.
I have to agree 100% with SelfEvident, it's quite frustrating when a card works differently than the wording on the card, and the reg, and the massively outdated rulebook don't have an answer. I know it's easy to just ask a judge, which is fine midgame, but I think it would be nice to know that my cards or my opponents cards work slightly differently than the way they're read.
Gabe, while I definitely appreciate both of those forums, I wouldn't say that answers to a lot of questions are "readily available in a quick and easy manner" like SelfEvident suggested. I don't always have the time to sort through pages of threads to find what may or may not be the answer I'm looking for.
Now this may not be as big of a problem for long time players, but the learning curve for new players is pretty ridiculous. I personally don't have the answer to this, but I do think that it may need to be discussed, and I'm sure plenty of people would be willing to help however they can.
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Now this may not be as big of a problem for long time players, but the learning curve for new players is pretty ridiculous.
It is a problem for all but a few of the people on these boards.
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Would it be possible/practical for someone to make like a PDF out of all the ruling changes in those threads (or just all rulings that update the rulebook and/or REG) that people could download and either have on their computer at a tourney or print out for use? An on-computer pdf file would be searchable, too, so it would be simple enough to find rulings for a specific card, etc.
Just my :2cents: since I know I've been arguing the "the new REG is coming, just wait it out" side and people might not think I really care.
I'd be willing to make it/help with it if people would be interested in it.
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I think something like that would be a great idea. I'm sure a lot of people would help. I personally would like something that explains confusing or oddly worded abilities. I would be way more than willing to help out with such a thing, heck I may even just get my local playgroup together and try and start it ourselves. :O
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While I can't help, I love the idea. Perhaps a hosting "cheat sheet" that has global ideas that can be used for quick reference.
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Alright, I'll start working on them. Any specific things that should be in the cheat sheet? I'm thinking that'll be a more overall thing with general ideas and then the specific ruling-per-card pdf can be separate.
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Alright, I'll start working on them. Any specific things that should be in the cheat sheet? I'm thinking that'll be a more overall thing with general ideas and then the specific ruling-per-card pdf can be separate.
This is WAY MORE CONSTRUCTIVE. Thank you! And I truly mean that.
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I'd add this type of information:
What exactly does Protect entail? (Reference different cards that shine as examples)
"" Immune ""
"" Prevent ""
"" Ignore ""
"" Interrupt ""
"" Negate ""
"" Turn "" i.e. does "turn" in general mean holder's turn, or all players' turn
"" Warrior-class enhancements "" how do they work
"" Territory-Class enhancements "" ""
"" Discard "" i.e. Judas
And the key words of old cards that have been deemed to fall under those categories. I.e. Interrupt and Prevent = Negate
"" Your ""
"" Holder ""
Etc... then the actually ruling updates can further define those abilities.
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I'm liking this idea very much. Could there also be a brief outline of how the Elder Ruling System works?
Carry On,
-C_S
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And all of the Elder's personal phone numbers and addresses.
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Alright, I'll start working on them. Any specific things that should be in the cheat sheet? I'm thinking that'll be a more overall thing with general ideas and then the specific ruling-per-card pdf can be separate.
This is a great idea, and is infinitely more valuable than complaints. When you are done with it, send it to an elder and we'll modify anything that needs it, then rubber stamp it.
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Specific examples would also be useful for the more confusing rulings.
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I've finished the first draft. Feel free to check it out and leave feedback at the link below.
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/message_boards/ruling-questions/quick-reference-cheat-sheet-draft/
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When you are done with it, send it to an elder and we'll argue about it on the super-special-secret boards, then forget about it for a year.
Fixed.
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When you are done with it, send it to an elder and we'll argue about it on the super-special-secret boards, then forget about it for a year.
Fixed.
Where did that quote come from?
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That's a modified version of Bryon's post just a few posts before his.
Here is the actual post:
When you are done with it, send it to an elder and we'll modify anything that needs it, then rubber stamp it.
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No, I'm not rubber. But I will point out that my learning curve has a name -- "Dolly Parton."
:D
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That's a modified version of Bryon's post just a few posts before his.
Here is the actual post:
When you are done with it, send it to an elder and we'll modify anything that needs it, then rubber stamp it.
I was currious thought it might have come from another thread?
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Nope. Quoting someone, modifying his or her post, and typing the word "Fixed." is a common way of expressing one's own opinion on the matter in a tongue-in-cheek way. Some people find it amusing, others find it annoying, but there are fairly few people who frequent the boards that haven't done it a time or two.
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Nope. Quoting someone, modifying his or her post, and typing the word "Fixed." is a common way of expressing one's own opinion on the matter in a tongue-in-cheek way. And by the way, everyone should know that the Prof Underwood is the real prof, and I'm just the "other Prof".
Fixed. I can't believe people would do such a thing. How could they live with themselves?