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Author Topic: A new idea about Ignore  (Read 8172 times)

Offline Bryon

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #50 on: January 29, 2010, 08:29:30 PM »
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Thanks for your input.  It is valuable to know what is confusing in the rules, especially to players who were not around when the switch to Rock-paper-scissors was made. 

I'll recommend play as entries for those 2 cards right now.

About HHI, that one is more complicated than it appears at first glance.  If that artifact is activated while a banding hero is already in battle, or if the hero becomes a banding card during the battle (gains a permanent band ability, for example), then it needs to switch to having "no effect."  What do we call that?  Ignore seemed the best fit at the time, since it matches Wall of Fire, which is clasified as an ignore.

I think we'll probably have to stick with "ignore" or "repel" on that card.
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #51 on: January 29, 2010, 08:37:50 PM »
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Quote from: Bryon on January 29, 2010, 08:29:30 PM
Thanks for your input.  It is valuable to know what is confusing in the rules, especially to players who were not around when the switch to Rock-paper-scissors was made. 

I'll recommend play as entries for those 2 cards right now.

Three I think. there was two from AW and Large Tree.

Quote
About HHI, that one is more complicated than it appears at first glance.  If that artifact is activated while a banding hero is already in battle, or if the hero becomes a banding card during the battle (gains a permanent band ability, for example), then it needs to switch to having "no effect."  What do we call that?  Ignore seemed the best fit at the time, since it matches Wall of Fire, which is clasified as an ignore.

I think we'll probably have to stick with "ignore" or "repel" on that card.

Prevent all good banding abilities. Good banding cards may not enter battle, any that are in battle are ignored by all evil characters.

^ maybe that?
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #52 on: January 29, 2010, 08:44:50 PM »
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Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on January 29, 2010, 08:37:50 PM
Quote from: Bryon on January 29, 2010, 08:29:30 PM
I'll recommend play as entries for those 2 cards right now.
Three I think. there was two from AW and Large Tree.
Weren't there three from AW? A black one (promo), a PG one, and a crimson one, or something?
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #53 on: January 29, 2010, 08:47:20 PM »
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Black:  Wings of Calamity
Crimson:  Defiant & Large Tree
Pale Green:  Masquerading
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Offline christiangamer25

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #54 on: January 29, 2010, 08:58:03 PM »
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thats what you were complaining about oh noes those cards all suck
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Lamborghini_diablo

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #55 on: January 29, 2010, 09:06:00 PM »
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Quote from: Crashfach2002 on January 29, 2010, 08:47:20 PM
Black:  Wings of Calamity
Crimson:  Defiant & Large Tree
Pale Green:  Masquerading


Wings of Calamity doesn't say "Cannot be ignored."

"Place this card on a black brigade demon.  Artifacts do not prevent that demon from blocking, and the special ability on that demon cannot be negated."
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Offline Crashfach2002

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #56 on: January 29, 2010, 09:10:26 PM »
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Sorry I didn't really read the cards, I just went and found the ones Bubble Boy talked about!
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Offline BubbleBoy

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2010, 10:03:52 PM »
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My bad. I just thought it was the same as the others.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: A new idea about Ignor
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2010, 08:18:25 AM »
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OK, so Bryon has explained how the current rules have ignore abilities targeting only the player who played them.  However, I still think that this would be a good point in the lifespan of Redemption to consider re-interpreting ignore abilities.  If the suggestion below helps balance the most complained about strategy in the game, why not make the switch?
Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 29, 2010, 01:14:26 PM
I still think that "ignore" could be re-interpreted to include 2 things.

1 - Targeting the hero to say that it is protected from all blocking evil characters.
2 - Targeting ECs so that they can't enter battle.

The first part would mean that they still couldn't be blocked by anyone in play, or be hurt by any blocker at all (unless there was an interrupt).  But the second part would only target ECs that were in play, meaning that you could still block from hand.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: A new idea about Ignor
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2010, 09:31:03 AM »
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Quote from: Prof Underwood on January 30, 2010, 08:18:25 AM
If the suggestion below helps balance the most complained about strategy in the game, why not make the switch?

1) Because there is nothing wrong with ignore in it's present state.  People haven't learned to deal with it or they're stubborn and choose not to build their decks in a way that does.

2) Because the "most complained about strategy in the game" changes.  It used to be FBTN.  Then it was Speed.  For almost a year it was U&T.  Presently it's TGT and ignore.

If you take the axe to every tree that rubs you the wrong way, eventually there won't be a forest anymore.
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Offline Bryon

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2010, 10:42:04 AM »
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Excellent points, Gabe - especially the second one.  Here's a few more:

3) Changing major rulings like this IS a negative for a lot of people

4) Having "ignore" and "cannot be blocked by" mean the same thing is simpler, and has worked for over a decade.

5) Pre-bock ignore is not a problem if you have access to more of yoru evil characters.  Territory destruction is most of the issue with TGT

6) We know what cards are coming this summer.  We don't need to chop down the tree now.  Cards will prune it nicely.
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Offline EmJayBee83

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Re: A new idea about Ignor
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2010, 10:51:40 AM »
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Quote from: BrianGabe on January 30, 2010, 09:31:03 AM
If you take the axe to every tree that rubs you the wrong way, eventually there won't be a forest anymore.
Gabe knows what he is talking about. From the time they are infants every young Iowan (Iowite, Iowegian?!?) is taught the story about what happened to the great forest that once covered their state.  :)

Sorry for the interruption.  Carry on, men.
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Offline TheKarazyvicePresidentRR

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2010, 10:58:25 AM »
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The thing is, (and the only reason I support it, since Pre Block ignore doesn't effect me much), is that it is inconsistent(Or seems to be). All cards without a target default to play. I also think you should be able to be immune to pre block ignore (EG Color guard in a site vs an ignore of that color) and really fail to see why.
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Offline Sean

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2010, 11:14:10 AM »
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To add on to what Gabe said, changing how ignore is played is like treating the symptom without treating the cause.  Ignore is perfectly balanced on its own.  It is the combination with pre-block that makes ignore unbalanced.  If you want to solve the problem, target pre-block, not ignore.  Take away Jacob, ET and Hidden Treasures and you suddenly have little to no worry of ignore prior to blocking.  Widow allows for many blocks, King David allows for many blocks, and Zebulun takes the entire time span of a game to become a true threat.  FWIW, I question whether people even remember that Salome has an ignore ability.

Quote
Pre-bock ignore is not a problem if you have access to more of yoru evil characters.  Territory destruction is most of the issue with TGT
Bryon is also dead on with this assessment.
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Offline RTSmaniac

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Re: A new idea about Ignore
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2010, 11:40:25 AM »
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Quote
The thing is, (and the only reason I support it, since Pre Block ignore doesn't effect me much), is that it is inconsistent(Or seems to be). All cards without a target default to play. I also think you should be able to be immune to pre block ignore (EG Color guard in a site vs an ignore of that color) and really fail to see why.

Could someone please explain again about this situation? I know it was talked about before but i think it is a good time to talk about it again.
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