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Author Topic: Revealer vs. JTower  (Read 1524 times)

Offline YourMathTeacher

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Revealer vs. JTower
« on: October 26, 2009, 08:12:13 PM »
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Would Jerusalem Tower prevent the Revealer LS's SA? I was confused by the fact that JTower says that no opponent may "remove" a card from your draw pile, but the Revealer says to "reveal" and "place beneath deck." I ruled that the Revealer could not remove any card from the top of the deck and put it on the bottom, but I was not certain. I was also assuming that revealed Lost Souls would not be placed in LoB since they would be "removed" from the deck.

Jerusalem Tower
Type: Fortress • Brigade: Multicolor • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: No opponent may remove a card from holder's draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched and/or shuffled. • Play As: All opponents are prevented from removing cards from holder’s draw pile. Draw pile may still be searched, revealed, and/or shuffled. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Nehemiah 12:38 • Availability: Patriarchs booster packs (Rare)

Romans 3:23 (‘Revealer’)
Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: When you draw this card, each opponent must reveal the top two cards of his draw pile. Place each revealed Lost Soul in owner's Land of Bondage. Place the rest beneath owner's draw pile. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Romans 3:23 • Availability: Angel Wars booster packs (Rare)

« Last Edit: October 26, 2009, 08:14:51 PM by YourMathTeacher »
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Revealer vs. JTower
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2009, 08:21:00 PM »
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It prevents part of the ability (the place LS's in Land of Bondage part) but not the reveal or place on bottom part. Unless the ruling has changed, what happens is this:

--I draw the revealer, you have JT out.
--You reveal top two, say a Lost Soul and a hero.
--The Hero is placed on bottom per the revealer's ability. It wasn't removed from the draw pile, it's location in the pile was exchanged, so JT's prevntion isn't violated.
--The Lost Soul can't be removed from the draw pile per JT, so it goes back to where it came from, the top of the deck (the revealer doesn't permit LS's to go on the bottom).
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: Revealer vs. JTower
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2009, 08:23:51 PM »
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I know the reveal part is okay, but aren't you removing the hero from the deck in order to place it somewhere else in the deck? Maybe I am reading into it too much. You can, after all, shuffle the deck.
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Offline Cameron the Conqueror

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Re: Revealer vs. JTower
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2009, 08:24:47 PM »
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I would think that the Revealer would be mostly unhampered.  JT prevents cards from being "removed", and to me, that is taken out of (discarded, placed into hand, placed into territory, removed from the game etc.)  Rearranging the cards seems to be fine, especially as JT allows for shuffling.

However, I think if a LS is revealed, it is placed under, because that is a remove ability.

So, I would rule it placed every card beneith deck, including lost souls. 


Quote from: Professoralstad on October 26, 2009, 08:21:00 PM
It prevents part of the ability (the place LS's in Land of Bondage part) but not the reveal or place on bottom part. Unless the ruling has changed, what happens is this:

--I draw the revealer, you have JT out.
--You reveal top two, say a Lost Soul and a hero.
--The Hero is placed on bottom per the revealer's ability. It wasn't removed from the draw pile, it's location in the pile was exchanged, so JT's prevntion isn't violated.
--The Lost Soul can't be removed from the draw pile per JT, so it goes back to where it came from, the top of the deck (the revealer doesn't permit LS's to go on the bottom).

The reveler does permit LS's to be put on the bottom because JT is actively preventing the ability of the LS's being placed in LoB.  We must act like that sentence doesn't exist.
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Offline SirNobody

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Re: Revealer vs. JTower
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2009, 11:57:59 AM »
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Hey,

Interesting.  Does "the rest" means all cards that have not been targeted or does it mean all cards that are not otherwise addressed by the card?  My initial thought was the latter, but I'm not sure how that would work with Zeresh.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly
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Offline Cameron the Conqueror

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Re: Revealer vs. JTower
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2009, 12:02:51 PM »
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Quote from: SirNobody on October 28, 2009, 11:57:59 AM
Hey,

Interesting.  Does "the rest" means all cards that have not been targeted or does it mean all cards that are not otherwise addressed by the card?  My initial thought was the latter, but I'm not sure how that would work with Zeresh.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

I would also think the latter.  "The rest" isn't referring to anything if JT is up, so I would mentally make it an "all".


Quote
Zeresh

Type: Evil Char. • Brigade: Brown • Ability: 2 / 3 • Class: None • Special Ability: Protect Zeresh and Haman from conversion. May band to Haman to search the top 6 cards of your draw pile for an evil card. Return the rest in any order. • Identifiers: OT Female Human, Media-Persia • Verse: Esther 5:14 • Availability: Priests booster packs (Uncommon)
It really doesn't matter because Zeresh can only search your own draw pile and JT only stops opponents.
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