Cactus Game Design Message Boards

1. I'm pretty confident the answer is yes (haven't made it that far as I read the new REG) depending on enhancement wording (where does it target the hero).

2. No, the hero cannot play a negate because he can't gain initiative in a battle that he/she is not involved in.

3. Luke's ability only activates when he enters battle, so it has some applicability (albeit limited) but not very much.

1. I'm not sure where the myth came from, but it seems to be prevalent. There is no rule stopping a side-battle targeting the main battle if a card could otherwise target it. What you're probably thinking of is that cards referring to "battle" can only target the side-battle, whereas "field of battle" would target the main battle as well.

2. I've always played, had it explained, and seen it ruled that if a side-battle causes the removal of the opposing side in the main battle, after its conclusion that side gains special initiative to interrupt whatever caused the side-battle. It's always seemed weird to me but it is nonetheless how it has been ruled in the past.

Number 1 is correct.

I think the reasoning for Number 2 (which is also correct, as far as I know) is that a side battle takes place instantaneously with respect to the main battle, so all the abilities that result from the side battle are similar to one card with multiple abilities. For example, if I played a card that said "Discard a Hero. Draw a card. Remove a Site from the Game. Band to a demon." then all of those other abilities would happen before the Hero gets a chance to negate the discard (which may or may not negate the rest). Similarly, the side battle resolves before you get a chance to negate it.

3. Don't use Luke.

That's good advice in most cases, but if he happens to be drafted in Booster Draft (Heroes with abilities 9 or higher are always good drafts) then it might be necessary to know how he works. Essentially, his heal ability only applies when there is a Hero who was discarded previous to the attack (rarely happens) or when a Hero is poisoned or diseased when he attacks. Probably the best use of Luke (again, in Booster Draft/Sealed Deck only, he's not good to use in other categories) is to prevent a Hero that is banding to him (Claudia, for example) from being discarded.

I want to encourage other Redemption players to join me in this endeavor.

I want to strongly second that. I'd like to think we made a lot of improvements, but as with anything, there is probably still a bunch of errors/confusing sections that should be clarified. The upside is that the document can be updated much more quickly and easily than before, and new versions should be able to be released every few months as necessary. The downside (for now) is that we still have only a few people that have been able to devote a lot of time to make the changes, but if we get a lot of people to do a little browsing from time to time and point out errors, that makes our jobs a lot easier.

Thanks guys, one more thing. If two evil characters are in the side battle and one plays an enhancement to discard the hero in the original battle, what can the evil character do about it?
Every evil negate enhancment I have says the last GOOD enhancement played in the current battle.

Assuming that your EC has initiative (by the numbers, since special initiative won't affect it) then the EC can play an interrupt the battle card which interrupts the last enhancement played (if played by your opponent). You can also play a card that negates all Enhancements (like Foolish Advice, Mask of Fear, etc.).

Prevent is proactive, interrupt is reactive, negate is both.

3. For a character like Luke who can heal a hero, if the hero has to be healed (from discard) in the same phase that he was discarded, how is that applicable if you can't make multiple battles per turn?

That's good advice in most cases, but if he happens to be drafted in Booster Draft (Heroes with abilities 9 or higher are always good drafts) then it might be necessary to know how he works. Essentially, his heal ability only applies when there is a Hero who was discarded previous to the attack (rarely happens) or when a Hero is poisoned or diseased when he attacks. Probably the best use of Luke (again, in Booster Draft/Sealed Deck only, he's not good to use in other categories) is to prevent a Hero that is banding to him (Claudia, for example) from being discarded.

First, healing can affect any character discarded previously in the turn, not just the phase, so it is an important difference.  If you were to, say, play down a particularly nasty hero during Prep Phase (never mind why you wouldn't keep him in hand ) and your opponent Martyred him, you could then enter battle with Luke and heal said hero, returning him to your territory.

However, on what Prof A said, I'm not sure healing would work in that case.  If Claudia were being discarded and she played an interrupt + band to bring in Luke, she would no longer be discarded when the heal was able to target her, and healing cannot be used proactively.  It would be different than the case of, say, Satan's Folly which would instead the discard once it reactivated.  Luke's healing should not work the same way, as the discard would reactivate and discard Claudia without Luke being able to heal her afterwards.  And if it was just a band from the start of battle, the heal again would not be able to 'protect' from discard later in the battle.

Unless something has changed and I missed it when I read the Heal ability in the new REG


On the other question (about abilities being able to be interrupted/negated in the original battle if SI was caused, once the side-battle ended), I have never heard of that rule.  Though I do understand the reasoning behind it, and can see where it comes from.  Can that part be added to the REG, in the side-battle section or in the SI section (which is apparently in the works)?

Quote from: Scoobug on October 23, 2012, 11:05:14 AM

3. For a character like Luke who can heal a hero, if the hero has to be healed (from discard) in the same phase that he was discarded, how is that applicable if you can't make multiple battles per turn?

Quote from: Professoralstad on October 23, 2012, 02:27:10 PM

That's good advice in most cases, but if he happens to be drafted in Booster Draft (Heroes with abilities 9 or higher are always good drafts) then it might be necessary to know how he works. Essentially, his heal ability only applies when there is a Hero who was discarded previous to the attack (rarely happens) or when a Hero is poisoned or diseased when he attacks. Probably the best use of Luke (again, in Booster Draft/Sealed Deck only, he's not good to use in other categories) is to prevent a Hero that is banding to him (Claudia, for example) from being discarded.

First, healing can affect any character discarded previously in the turn, not just the phase, so it is an important difference.  If you were to, say, play down a particularly nasty hero during Prep Phase (never mind why you wouldn't keep him in hand ) and your opponent Martyred him, you could then enter battle with Luke and heal said hero, returning him to your territory.

However, on what Prof A said, I'm not sure healing would work in that case.  If Claudia were being discarded and she played an interrupt + band to bring in Luke, she would no longer be discarded when the heal was able to target her, and healing cannot be used proactively.  It would be different than the case of, say, Satan's Folly which would instead the discard once it reactivated.  Luke's healing should not work the same way, as the discard would reactivate and discard Claudia without Luke being able to heal her afterwards.  And if it was just a band from the start of battle, the heal again would not be able to 'protect' from discard later in the battle.

Unless something has changed and I missed it when I read the Heal ability in the new REG


On the other question (about abilities being able to be interrupted/negated in the original battle if SI was caused, once the side-battle ended), I have never heard of that rule.  Though I do understand the reasoning behind it, and can see where it comes from.  Can that part be added to the REG, in the side-battle section or in the SI section (which is apparently in the works)?

That could be a good strategy, causing a side battle and playing hero killers in it so your opponent's evil character would have to do soemthing about it. Interesting.

And one last thing I was playing my neighbor last night and was wondering, is it possible to make a rescue attempt when (A) a lost soul is available or (B) when there is a lost soul in a site? Example I do a battle challenge with Dodai the Ahohite and discard one of his sites, does that turn it in to a rescue attempt?

Read Luke's actual SA and you'll understand what combo he was talking about.

This. I wasn't suggesting Luke would heal Claudia, just protect her from discard.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

No, it is a rescue attempt if you have access to the lost soul.

EDIT:  From the new REG....

"A battle challenge may be given when there is no Lost Soul available for a Hero to rescue." 
                                                (First line under "Battle Challenge" in the Glossary of Terms)



FWIW:  I couldn't copy and paste..is there a way to make that possible with the new Reg?

FWIW:  I couldn't copy and paste..is there a way to make that possible with the new Reg?

I'm not sure why you couldn't copy/paste from the PDF. I was able to select the text, copy and paste it below.

Battle Challenge
A battle challenge may be given when there is no Lost Soul available for a Hero to rescue. A Hero is
placed onto the Field of Battle, and the attacking player declares an opponent. That opponent
may accept the Battle Challenge by placing an Evil Character into the Field of Battle to oppose
the Hero(es), or the opponent may decline the Battle Challenge, and the battle is over.

I haven't started reading yet, but there's a problem right there. What does "not available" mean? Is a Lost Soul in a site available? Is a Lost Soul with a Protect ability available? It would be much less complicated to say "A battle is a Rescue Attempt unless: no Hero in battle has access to a Lost Soul (in which case it is a Battle Challenge), it is a side-battle, or it began as a taunt."

I know what it means functionally, but mechanically it's faulty. Suppose they only have the female LS but you attack with Isaiah+Call? Was it ever a battle challenge at some point? And it goes back the other way, if so, if you attack with Hur+Gifts while the Speed Bump is up, did the battle begin as a Rescue Attempt?