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I know they can't be redeemed anymore (which I agree with btw), but are they any sort of known card type?

For example, are they a lost soul that Exchanger/Wanderer can be used on?

Are they a captured EC (assuming there were cards that affect captured ECs)?

Can they be placed in a site (not sure why I'd want to do this)?

Are they shuffled in as demons again after A New Beginning?

I'm sure there's more scenarios I should be asking about right now, but hopefully you get the point.  Thanks for your help.

As far as I know (I'm not entirely clear on all of these myself, but maybe some other elder could corroborate):

-They are NOT Lost Souls. This I know for sure. So they cannot be targeted as Lost Souls, nor do they count for LS's for conditions (e.g. Harvest Time's condition). The only thing they have in common with Lost Souls is that they are by default in the Land of Bondage (at least I think so, based on Tartaros' wording).

-They ARE captured EC's/captured characters/captured demons (I'm fairly certain of this one). So they can be targeted by any card that targets one of those three card types. I don't know how many currently exist, but I can think of at least one that will soon exist...

-They CANNOT be placed in a site (unless a special abilty would allow you to, which currently I don't believe is possible). Only Lost Souls can be placed in sites, except by outside special abilties. This I am fairly sure of.

-They DO reset to being demon evil characters when a card like ANB shuffles them into deck. This I know for sure.

Things I am not certain of:

Whether or not they count as evil cards or neutral cards.
Whether or not they count as demons, or just captured demons.

Like I said, hopefully an elder who knows more about the situation can corroborate.

Quote from: stefferweffer on July 11, 2011, 01:48:50 PM

I know they can't be redeemed anymore (which I agree with btw), but are they any sort of known card type?

For example, are they a lost soul that Exchanger/Wanderer can be used on?

Are they a captured EC (assuming there were cards that affect captured ECs)?

Can they be placed in a site (not sure why I'd want to do this)?

Are they shuffled in as demons again after A New Beginning?

I'm sure there's more scenarios I should be asking about right now, but hopefully you get the point.  Thanks for your help.

As far as I know (I'm not entirely clear on all of these myself, but maybe some other elder could corroborate):

-They are NOT Lost Souls. This I know for sure. So they cannot be targeted as Lost Souls, nor do they count for LS's for conditions (e.g. Harvest Time's condition). The only thing they have in common with Lost Souls is that they are by default in the Land of Bondage (at least I think so, based on Tartaros' wording).

-They ARE captured EC's/captured characters/captured demons (I'm fairly certain of this one). So they can be targeted by any card that targets one of those three card types. I don't know how many currently exist, but I can think of at least one that will soon exist...

-They CANNOT be placed in a site (unless a special abilty would allow you to, which currently I don't believe is possible). Only Lost Souls can be placed in sites, except by outside special abilties. This I am fairly sure of.

-They DO reset to being demon evil characters when a card like ANB shuffles them into deck. This I know for sure.

Things I am not certain of:

Whether or not they count as evil cards or neutral cards.
Whether or not they count as demons, or just captured demons.

Like I said, hopefully an elder who knows more about the situation can corroborate.

I am sure they cannot be targeted as demons.  I am not sure whether they satisfy triggers as demons.  I am somewhat sure they retain their alignment as evil.  Finally, I am sure I will be ignored.   

As far as I know (I'm not entirely clear on all of these myself, but maybe some other elder could corroborate):
-They are NOT Lost Souls.
-They ARE captured EC's/captured characters/captured demons
-They CANNOT be placed in a site
-They DO reset to being demon evil characters when a card like ANB shuffles them into deck.

Things I am not certain of:
Whether or not they count as evil cards or neutral cards.
Whether or not they count as demons, or just captured demons.

I agree with all 4 things that the "other Prof" knows.  And I will add that they do NOT count as demons, but only "captured demons" when it comes to targeting (ie. "discard a demon").  However, they do count as demons for cards that "look" for that sort of thing (ie. "if a demon is in play").

As for whether they are evil or neutral cards, I too am unsure.  However, I would lean toward neutral.

Worse than the first.

That specifies demons in a Land of Bondage (though, it does have to be YOUR LoB because that's the only way it's your demon) which is effectively saying captured demon. It's like when a card targets a Hero in a site or Raider's Camp--it really means captured Hero.

A captured character still keeps its identifiers for cards that "look" for a specific thing (ie. "if a judge is in play"), but do cannot be targeted by those identifiers (ie. "discard a judge").

I find this to be contradictory and confusing. Is this really the way we are ruling it?

So if a hypothetical card said, "If a judge is in play, discard a judge," the captured judge that fits the first part of the ability can not be the judge in the second part?

So if a hypothetical card said, "If a judge is in play, discard a judge," the captured judge that fits the first part of the ability can not be the judge in the second part?

Unfortunately, yes.

I've never had so much fun stirring up a hornet's nest.


 

It is a good thing that you aren't bringing this subject up right before some major tourney. 

That ruling first came out with Arioch, where a captured prophet would count for the first part, but a captured human wouldn't for the second part. I've never been too clear on why that is, but I know that's the way it's been.

So a captured character keeps identifiers only when your not targeting them?!
I really don't understand how this can be.. 
:Insert Migraine:

I've been advocating that for a while. Either make them lose identifiers or keep them for all purposes, but don't have them lose identifiers for targeting but keep identifiers for conditions.

I second that nomination, very few people have the experience and knowledge of the game as Polarius.  I think he would make a great Elder. 

I've been advocating that for a while. Either make them lose identifiers or keep them for all purposes, but don't have them lose identifiers for targeting but keep identifiers for conditions.

Some of us have been advocating that ever since we lost both ends of the Arioch ruling.

Inb4 requests to remove the site ruling and re-break herod's dungeon.