Author Topic: 5-5 Mutual Victory  (Read 2486 times)

Offline crustpope

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5-5 Mutual Victory
« on: July 30, 2010, 05:44:48 PM »
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Of course this comes up only once in a blue moon but imagine 2 people tied at 4-4  one RA's half of the 2 liner LS and the oponent immediately plays SoG on it to make it a 5-5 tie.

Question for a Redemption Elder -   What is the goal of the game?  to beat your opponent or to rescue 5 LS's?

If the latter then why not reward both with a 3 point victory with 0 LS differential?
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2010, 05:52:02 PM »
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The best reason is probably that that would result in the possibility of even more ties in final placings at tournaments. Also, the goal of the game is to rescue 5 Lost Souls before your opponent does. If you tie 5-5, you didn't do that.

Finally, the software that some hosts use to track tournament scoring is already set up to have 5-5 = 1.5 pts for each person. A change to the rules would require a change to the software, which might take longer than you or I would think. I don't envision too many changes in the scoring system being implemented in the near future.
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Offline ChristianSoldier

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2010, 06:20:43 PM »
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Also I think there are 3 points available for each 2 player game so it makes sense that if they tie that it gets split up evenly, even if its for the 7th (or 5th for you T1 players) Lost Soul.
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Offline Gabe

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2010, 08:48:49 PM »
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If the game ends and two players have the same score, be it 5-5 or 0-0 or any number in between, it's a tie.
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Offline crustpope

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2010, 12:38:54 AM »
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Ah...the game is a foot Trebeck.  Oh I'll play your game you Rogue!   ;)

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Offline Master KChief

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2010, 01:35:33 AM »
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Ah...the game is a foot Trebeck.  Oh I'll play your game you Rogue!   ;)



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Offline Ken4Christ4ever

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #6 on: July 31, 2010, 11:45:10 AM »
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The best reason is probably that that would result in the possibility of even more ties in final placings at tournaments. Also, the goal of the game is to rescue 5 Lost Souls before your opponent does. If you tie 5-5, you didn't do that.

Finally, the software that some hosts use to track tournament scoring is already set up to have 5-5 = 1.5 pts for each person. A change to the rules would require a change to the software, which might take longer than you or I would think. I don't envision too many changes in the scoring system being implemented in the near future.

Regarding the software, is it supposed to award 3 points to first and 0 points to second in a 3-person multi-player game, 3 points to first and 1 point to second in a 4-person multi-player game, and 3 points to first with 2 points to second in a 5-person multi-player game? That's what it does, but I wanted to confirm that's what is supposed to happen. Thanks!

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #7 on: July 31, 2010, 12:00:43 PM »
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The best reason is probably that that would result in the possibility of even more ties in final placings at tournaments. Also, the goal of the game is to rescue 5 Lost Souls before your opponent does. If you tie 5-5, you didn't do that.

Finally, the software that some hosts use to track tournament scoring is already set up to have 5-5 = 1.5 pts for each person. A change to the rules would require a change to the software, which might take longer than you or I would think. I don't envision too many changes in the scoring system being implemented in the near future.

Regarding the software, is it supposed to award 3 points to first and 0 points to second in a 3-person multi-player game, 3 points to first and 1 point to second in a 4-person multi-player game, and 3 points to first with 2 points to second in a 5-person multi-player game? That's what it does, but I wanted to confirm that's what is supposed to happen. Thanks!

That is correct. The number of points is always equal to the number of players, and the winner always gets three points (as long as the winner got five Redeemed Souls). The rest of the points are always divided among everyone who tied for second.

What gets really hairy is when there are timeout wins/ties. I'm pretty sure the point distributions are listed somewhere, but I'm not quite sure where.
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Offline Ken4Christ4ever

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #8 on: July 31, 2010, 12:04:27 PM »
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Ok, thanks. :) This determined who placed 2nd and 3rd in one event at our State tournament, and I wanted to confirm that the points were supposed to be given as they were.

Offline SirNobody

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2010, 02:35:33 PM »
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Hey,

Question for a Redemption Elder -   What is the goal of the game?  to beat your opponent or to rescue 5 LS's?

The rulebook says: The player with the most Redeemed Souls wins.

That and the Grapes of Wrath ruling regarding "most" should answer your question :)

I'm pretty sure the table with all of the possible Multiplayer game results and point distributions is on one of the extra pages in the tournament tracker spreadsheet.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2010, 03:11:21 PM »
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Ok, thanks. :) This determined who placed 2nd and 3rd in one event at our State tournament, and I wanted to confirm that the points were supposed to be given as they were.

Yeah, I ended up winning a tournament retroactively because I was given the incorrect amount of points for a 3-way tie for second in a time-out multiplayer game. The correct distribution is: Winner--2 pts, Everyone else--2/3 pt. I only got 1/3 pt at the tournament, and ended up placing second by 1/6 pt. Then I looked it up on the tracker and showed the host how I should have won.  :)
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Offline YourMathTeacher

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2010, 03:39:12 PM »
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The number of points is always equal to the number of players, ...

In a 2-player game, this would not be true. In an "always, sometimes, never" scenario, "always" can not have any exceptions. But you already knew that, and I am just giving you a hard time for no apparent reason. I was bored.  ;)

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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2010, 04:12:45 PM »
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The context of his question was multiplayer. So I gave him the rules for multiplayer, not realizing I had to specify to please the peanut gallery. Sheesh.

 ;)
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2010, 04:25:09 PM »
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I'm pretty sure the table with all of the possible Multiplayer game results and point distributions is on one of the extra pages in the tournament tracker spreadsheet.
Just to point out, that there is some problem with this spreadsheet.  I don't remember now what it was, but it came up at MW Regionals.  Basically it was a T2-mp game with a timeout.  I think it ended up something like 4-3-3-2 and the tracker spreadsheet gave the same number of victory points to the guy who finished 4th as to the 2 guys who finished tied for 2nd.  Anyway, I think that spreadsheet needs to be looked at again sometime.

Offline SirNobody

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2010, 04:55:47 PM »
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Hey,

Just to point out, that there is some problem with this spreadsheet.  I don't remember now what it was, but it came up at MW Regionals.  Basically it was a T2-mp game with a timeout.  I think it ended up something like 4-3-3-2 and the tracker spreadsheet gave the same number of victory points to the guy who finished 4th as to the 2 guys who finished tied for 2nd.

That's actually correct.  The player in the lead gets "winning at timeout" points the other three players are all "losing at timeout", so they share the rest of the points.  There's only "2nd place" points if the game ends before the time limit.

Tschow,

Tim "Sir Nobody" Maly

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: 5-5 Mutual Victory
« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2010, 06:53:29 PM »
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Not only is it correct, I think that's really the only way it can be. It avoids so many convoluted point distribution possibilities, and boils it down to a handful of simple principles.

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