Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Official Rules & Errata => Ruling Questions => Topic started by: Bryon on July 30, 2010, 11:28:11 AM

Title: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Bryon on July 30, 2010, 11:28:11 AM
http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/red_game_articles_disciples-4.php (http://www.cactusgamedesign.com/red_game_articles_disciples-4.php)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: xCaLeBx on July 30, 2010, 11:35:04 AM
this is bringin some speed deck ideas to me!
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: BubbleBoy on July 30, 2010, 12:11:32 PM
Quote
Matthew may draw up to X cards (limit 3).
:o

Quote
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).
:o :o :o

This article was full of very...discreet spoilers. ;) My favorite cards so far are the heroes. It looks like Disciples will have no trouble staying pretty much at the hand limit the whole game, what with Matthew, Fishing Boat, and Reach of Desperation. And Thaddeus...wow. That looks like the most powerful hero in the game. I hope we get some high defense EC's and/or more ways to prevent hero SA's, or else this dude will decimate.

Tank you, Bryon, for the amazing articles you've made! This looks like it is going to be the best Redemption set ever! I am very much looking forward to playing with the new themes from this set. :)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: TheJaylor on July 30, 2010, 12:21:24 PM
does it have to be worded like the promo Goshen so you can't take heroes out?

  ~Jayden
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: crustpope on July 30, 2010, 12:33:44 PM
Who says you cannot take heros out of GOshen?  And who says you cannot take heros out of this Fortress?  You can add or remove heroes from any fortress during your upkeep phase unless the SA on the card restricts when they can be added or subtracted.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Master KChief on July 30, 2010, 12:36:34 PM
i was so hoping it wouldnt cut off the art (like it was covered up by the redemption logo on the disciples box) and show they built a fire on the boat.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: The Warrior on July 30, 2010, 12:47:24 PM
sweet.........................................................................................
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: goldencomet on July 30, 2010, 12:52:36 PM
these cards are so powerful  :o
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: BubbleBoy on July 30, 2010, 12:56:52 PM
does it have to be worded like the promo Goshen so you can't take heroes out?
I'll bet you almost anything the new REG will solve this problem.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: fyero on July 30, 2010, 01:08:11 PM
that is totally wicked! hehe well in a non-evil-wicked-kinda-way ;) great articles hehe i am giddy with excitement especially considering i may be able to make it to NATIONALS!! hehe
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: CountFount on July 30, 2010, 02:15:59 PM
I am hoping that they make Thomas useable.....keep the s/a but maybe make it a X/7. X is the number of the disciples in play.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: JSB23 on July 30, 2010, 02:17:55 PM
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).   

 :doh: Who approved that?
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Bryon on July 30, 2010, 02:45:13 PM
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).   

 :doh: Who approved that?
The people who devised a way OTHER THAN FBN to stop Uzzah and the other little pests.

It sounds a lot more powerful than it is.  Though, in a dedicated Disciples deck with Crown of Throns active, it can be quite good.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2010, 02:52:28 PM
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).   

 :doh: Who approved that?

That's really not that good of an ability until end game when you have 5 or 6 disciples out and activate your Crown of Thorns.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: JSB23 on July 30, 2010, 02:56:45 PM
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).   

 :doh: Who approved that?
The people who devised a way OTHER THAN FBN to stop Uzzah and the other little pests.

It sounds a lot more powerful than it is.  Though, in a dedicated Disciples deck with Crown of Throns active, it can be quite good.
Then just make another John or negate all protect abilities.....
if you switched "play" with "not in battle" then it would be fine the way it is could be almost as bad as TGT sure you can block but you can't do anything to me
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Red on July 30, 2010, 02:58:54 PM
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).   

 :doh: Who approved that?
The people who devised a way OTHER THAN FBN to stop Uzzah and the other little pests.

It sounds a lot more powerful than it is.  Though, in a dedicated Disciples deck with Crown of Throns active, it can be quite good.
Then just make another John or negate all protect abilities.....
if you switched "play" with "not in battle" then it would be fine the way it is could be almost as bad as TGT sure you can block but you can't do anything to me

FBTN kills it.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2010, 02:59:32 PM
Did you read the Cannot be interrupted part?
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: JSB23 on July 30, 2010, 03:01:24 PM
Did you read the Cannot be interrupted part?
that's what worries me
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Red on July 30, 2010, 03:02:41 PM
Oops.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2010, 03:05:40 PM
Did you read the Cannot be interrupted part?
that's what worries me

Yep, I understand. I just don't think it's going to be that big an issue seeing as he isn't that good until end game, when you have had all game to plan how to stop him (Writ, Martyr, Immunity, etc).
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: JSB23 on July 30, 2010, 03:06:35 PM
He completely destroys emperors
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Bryon on July 30, 2010, 03:12:56 PM
Thaddeus protects all cards in play, set-aside area, Artifact piles, hands, and decks from Evil Characters with toughness X or less (cannot be interrupted).  

 :doh: Who approved that?
The people who devised a way OTHER THAN FBN to stop Uzzah and the other little pests.

It sounds a lot more powerful than it is.  Though, in a dedicated Disciples deck with Crown of Throns active, it can be quite good.
Then just make another John or negate all protect abilities.....
if you switched "play" with "not in battle" then it would be fine the way it is could be almost as bad as TGT sure you can block but you can't do anything to me

You mean you aren't going to just use an immune character?  Red Dragon stops Thaddeus cold.  

Printing another John or a "negate protect abilities" has the same weakness as James the Less: Holy of Holies.  HoH + Uzzah is already a dominant strategy.  We want to knock it down a peg or two.

There are cards like Confusion of Mind and Satan's Seat that already prevent his ability.  Plus, it is a lot harder to keep 5-8 disciples in play than you think.  Are all the evil characters in your deck of such small toughness?  Do none of them band?  Do none of them have an immune ability?

As to balance, I trust the playtesting that was done in this set more than any other set Cactus has ever released.  We had some of the top Redemption players using and testing and playing and testing and playing and testing a LOT.  They gave frequent input.  If anything, there is a disciple or two that is weaker than they would have hoped, but not stronger.  Again, it sounds better than it is.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: crustpope on July 30, 2010, 03:28:49 PM
I assume Disciples will not be legal for this years Nats Tournament..
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Professoralstad on July 30, 2010, 03:31:55 PM
Only in Booster Draft (at least that's what I'm assuming). That's how it's been ever since FoOF, the new set is used in Booster Draft, but nothing else.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Gabe on July 30, 2010, 03:42:36 PM
...If anything, there is a disciple or two that is weaker than they would have hoped, but not stronger.

Don't be deceived by how good the Disciples look on paper.  They're powerful and fun to play but you've gotten a false impression if you think they're over powered.  I'd be lying if I said there wasn't at least one Disciples that I felt could have used a little boost.  ;)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 30, 2010, 03:44:57 PM
I didn't realize at first that the title of this thread was referring to fishing for spoilers.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Minister Polarius on July 30, 2010, 03:49:06 PM
Who turned out the lights?

Anyway, I think the more important spoiler here is Herod's Temple. Hold off on Rescuing a bit, recycle Philosophy with ET, eat AoCP, Zeal, AotL, and Grapes, and then dig in. A Herods or Mormons defense will be hard to beat if they can get out a temple and an EC before you get 3.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Master KChief on July 30, 2010, 04:04:40 PM
I didn't realize at first that the title of this thread was referring to fishing for spoilers.

i take it you dont like spoilers.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on July 30, 2010, 04:12:30 PM
i take it you dont like spoilers.

That is situational. If I know I am going to see a movie, then I refuse to watch previews for it. If I am not sure whether a movie will be worth my money, then I will watch the trailers.

I want there to be some surprise when I open Disciples packs this fall. However, when Ken is preselling new cards before I can see them, a sense of urgency does present itself. I also fear trading or buying from people "in the know." I remember when there were suddenly a plethora of Warriors Harvest Times on eBay a few years back, for the reasonable price of $20. I almost bought one, but I started to wonder, so I held off. Shortly thereafter, the HT promo was released.

Likewise, when I suddenly get a rash of trade offers for High Priest's Plot, I start to wonder if Sadducees and Judas are about to make a big splash.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Bryon on July 30, 2010, 04:15:08 PM
I think the more important spoiler here is Herod's Temple. Hold off on Rescuing a bit, recycle Philosophy with ET, eat AoCP, Zeal, AotL, and Grapes, and then dig in. A Herods or Mormons defense will be hard to beat if they can get out a temple and an EC before you get 3.
Agreed.  The enhancements that most players have been calling "overpowered" for years are all discard abilities.  AoCp, Zeal, Haman's Plot.  Now there is an easy way to "instead" those discards.  "OP" just turned into "OK."  You just have to keep enough fuel in your deck, or keep the number of your rescued lost souls at a nice low number.  If you accidentally discard something you wish you hadn't, there might be a few ways to get some of those cards back into your deck...

Herod's Temple is going to be very helpful for a lot of N.T. human theme decks.  Just watch out for Romans Destroy Jerusalem.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Master KChief on July 30, 2010, 04:36:33 PM
herods temple will definately be staple for turtle decks...
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Alex_Olijar on July 30, 2010, 05:08:16 PM
I want to congratulate the playtesters on Wash Basin also. I was a big fan of the old Samaritan Water Jar, and Wash Basin is the same vein as that. Good call!
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: ChristianSoldier on July 30, 2010, 06:18:22 PM
I'm liking this card, and the other spoilers, I'm interested to see how some of these work in T2 where you can have multiple copies of disciples, however just not in play.  Also I'm a bit more concerned about the power, until I realized that if I let my opponent keep enough disciples to destroy my defense then my defense is already not working well.  (I try to avoid "Coward Blocks" if I can)

The disciples deck sounds really fun, I just find it annoying that I won't be able to easily pair it with Demons because they get placed beneath my deck, but we'll see
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Captain Kirk on July 30, 2010, 06:20:59 PM
The disciples deck sounds really fun, I just find it annoying that I won't be able to easily pair it with Demons because they get placed beneath my deck, but we'll see

Wow, that is a really good point.  I wonder if that was on purpose....?

Kirk
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Sean on July 31, 2010, 11:34:22 PM
The disciples deck sounds really fun, I just find it annoying that I won't be able to easily pair it with Demons because they get placed beneath my deck, but we'll see

Wow, that is a really good point.  I wonder if that was on purpose....?

Kirk
The Bronze Laver lets you put evil cards on the bottom after putting your disciple on the bottom.  Fishing Boat and The Bronze Laver might make for a fun mill deck.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Smokey on July 31, 2010, 11:41:02 PM
Disciples are on a boat AND... it's going fast AND...  ::)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 01, 2010, 12:09:37 AM
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fny-image1.etsy.com%2Fil_fullxfull.80845877.jpg&hash=39d784fd4a6c1496f882e9a20ac46f059b8d18a6)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: TheKarazyvicePresidentRR on August 01, 2010, 12:15:53 AM
O_O Herod's temple makes me SQUEEEE DEFENSE HEAVY DECKS HO!

The funny thing is the BIGGEST spoiler that caught my eye, hasn't been said. It has such a commanding presence too....

Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Red Dragon Thorn on August 01, 2010, 12:17:36 AM
Pol,

That picture isn't showing up for me, what is it?
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Smokey on August 01, 2010, 12:18:10 AM
Pol,

That picture isn't showing up for me, what is it?

Better that you don't know...
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: lightningninja on August 01, 2010, 12:29:22 AM
Wow... I think it's basically impossible to leave Redemption at this point.  ;D This set sounds AMAZING... I really hope I can make some tournaments this year. I will probably be using Disciples all year, haha.

They require SO MUCH THOUGHT, and that's what I love. You don't just throw them in like an aocp and hope you win. Your really have to plan a disciples deck, and that makes it awesome.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Smokey on August 01, 2010, 12:30:50 AM
Wow... I think it's basically impossible to leave Redemption at this point.  ;D This set sounds AMAZING... I really hope I can make some tournaments this year. I will probably be using Disciples all year, haha.

They require SO MUCH THOUGHT, and that's what I love. You don't just throw them in like an aocp and hope you win. Your really have to plan a disciples deck, and that makes it awesome.

Anyone else get the feeling EVERYONE knows something you don't?
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: ChristianSoldier on August 01, 2010, 12:49:36 AM
Wow... I think it's basically impossible to leave Redemption at this point.  ;D This set sounds AMAZING... I really hope I can make some tournaments this year. I will probably be using Disciples all year, haha.

They require SO MUCH THOUGHT, and that's what I love. You don't just throw them in like an aocp and hope you win. Your really have to plan a disciples deck, and that makes it awesome.

Anyone else get the feeling EVERYONE knows something you don't?

All the time.  It gets really annoying after its been happening your entire life.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Minister Polarius on August 01, 2010, 01:04:47 AM
I'll share some of the love: Buckler gets a reprint. They had to tone down the power a bit, so it only rescues 5 LS's and gives you legal ownership of all your opponents cards. [edited by R.O.S.E.S.  Please don't spoil cards in this thread - especially not the superultramega rares like this one.]
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: JSB23 on August 01, 2010, 01:57:59 AM
I'll share some of the love: Buckler gets a reprint. They had to tone down the power a bit, so it only rescues 5 LS's and gives you legal ownership of all your opponents cards. [edited by R.O.S.E.S.  Please don't spoil cards in this thread - especially not the superultramega rares like this one.]
Awww....
Can I still spoil the [edited by R.O.S.E.S.] and the [edited by R.O.S.E.S.]
dang it
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: sepjazzwarrior on August 01, 2010, 09:21:14 AM
is there anyway for a site deck to get around this fortress?  if not, this completely destroys site defenses
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: YourMathTeacher on August 01, 2010, 09:55:00 AM
is there anyway for a site deck to get around this fortress?  if not, this completely destroys site defenses

I'm sure that was the basic intent, especially with the plethora of turtle decks roaming around. The fortress does have a cost/effect trigger, so a site lockout deck would have to target the disciples quickly. Since the heroes that enter the fortress are now set aside, there are several cards that target heroes who were (or are) set aside. This is not a protection fort like Kerith Ravine. Any cards in the fortress are set aside and targetable.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 01, 2010, 11:13:31 AM
is there anyway for a site deck to get around this fortress?  if not, this completely destroys site defenses

Don't use a site deck that relies 100% on sites.  ;)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: fyero on August 01, 2010, 06:09:46 PM
if they were set aside in fishing boat and then placed under deck, and then u draw them, do they stil count as set aside or do they revert bcuz they went back to draw pile?
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Smokey on August 01, 2010, 06:35:52 PM
if they were set aside in fishing boat and then placed under deck, and then u draw them, do they stil count as set aside or do they revert bcuz they went back to draw pile?

Your hand is out of play, but if you place them into Battle, Territory, or a fortress that isn't set-aside they will return to in play.
Set aside isn't really something you "revert" from, it's just a different area of play.
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: crustpope on August 01, 2010, 06:53:27 PM
The fortress offers no protection so any card that returns heroes to territory from set aside would work.

Anoobedoo would work.

Would destructive sin or image of jealousy work if it was on a hero in opponents territory?

I really hope this new set has counters to set aside fortresses.  some of those fortresses are starting to really tip the game in favor of certain brigades (GoH)
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on August 01, 2010, 07:55:21 PM
The fortress offers no protection so any card that returns heroes to territory from set aside would work.

... I didn't even realize that. Well, I know one art thats absolutely a requirement for sitelock decks now, or just any deck that wants to stop Disciples.  ;D
Title: Re: 4th Disciples article posted - Who likes fishing?
Post by: fyero on August 01, 2010, 08:01:44 PM
Is Miraculous Handkerchiefs making a way into decks???
SimplePortal 2.3.3 © 2008-2010, SimplePortal