Author Topic: 2/3-Liner Question (Read 6506 times)

Master Q · « **on:** September 14, 2010, 11:59:02 PM »

This has been bugging me since I found out that the 2/3-Liners abilities were un-negatable, so I just thought I'd ask. If the ability on the card is not a special ability, but merely an identifier, than can you have as many as you want in a normal, 56 card type-1 deck, since it has been ruled to have no special ability? Could I use, say, 7 of them in Booster Draft? Help me out, I must be missing some obvious rule that says you cannot do this, but you can use all the same LSs in booster if they have no special ability, so why would this be different?

Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: This card counts as two Lost Souls. It must be rescued twice. • Errata: (Treat special ability as an identifier.) • Identifiers: None • Verse: Proverbs 22:14 • Availability: Limited booster packs (Rare)

Type: Lost Soul • Brigade: None • Ability: None • Class: None • Special Ability: This card counts as two Lost Souls. It must be rescued twice by the same player to count. • Errata: (Treat special ability as an identifier.) • Play As: This card counts as 2 Souls. After it is rescued once by a player, it remains in the Land of Bondage and is protected from rescue, except by the same player. On the second rescue, this card goes to the Land of Redemption. • Identifiers: None • Verse: Proverbs 22:14 • Availability: Unlimited booster packs (Rare)

JSB23 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 15, 2010, 12:20:05 AM »

I understand what you're saying and it doesn't really make sense but
Three/two liner follows the same rules as any other special ability lost soul, the ability was made an identifier to keep it from being negateable.

It doesn't really make sense but that's just how it is

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #2 on:** September 15, 2010, 12:21:14 AM »

sweeeet, good question

Master_Chi · « **Reply #3 on:** September 15, 2010, 09:37:26 AM »

I would tend to argue that technically you could, but for deckbuilding purposes, I would say no since you could just tap all of your 2/3-Liners and the opponent wouldn't ever get a rescue. Why? Something about wanting equal opportunity to win. Plus, if this was done, games would time out more and scores would be like 4-2.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #4 on:** September 15, 2010, 09:41:28 AM »

good question. answers from elders please.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2010, 09:53:15 AM »

I think the question here is if it still has both a SA and identifier, or is the SA converted to an identifier.

Secondly, you can only have three of a card with no SA in a standard T1 deck.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #6 on:** September 15, 2010, 09:54:55 AM »

its an identifier.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #7 on:** September 15, 2010, 09:56:22 AM »

Quote from: RTSmaniac on September 15, 2010, 09:54:55 AM

its an identifier.

So we can have up to three EACH of a 2-liner AND 3-liner?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #8 on:** September 15, 2010, 09:59:40 AM »

There needs to be an elder awake around here... Pity they all have these fancy "jobs". I don't think you can do it, though.

Master_Chi · « **Reply #9 on:** September 15, 2010, 10:05:11 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on September 15, 2010, 09:59:40 AM

There needs to be an elder awake around here... Pity they all have these fancy "jobs". I don't think you can do it, though.

Jobs are teh dumbz. You should, since technically the "ability" is an identifier, not an ability.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #10 on:** September 15, 2010, 10:08:28 AM »

Master Q · « **Reply #11 on:** September 15, 2010, 10:28:08 AM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on September 15, 2010, 09:53:15 AM

Secondly, you can only have three of a card with no SA in a standard T1 deck.

I thought you could have as many of the same no special ability Lost Soul in a deck? I've always played booster with 7 of the same, no special ability Lost Soul.

Quote from: JSB23 on September 15, 2010, 12:20:05 AM

I understand what you're saying and it doesn't really make sense but
Three/two liner follows the same rules as any other special ability lost soul, the ability was made an identifier to keep it from being negateable.

It doesn't really make sense but that's just how it is

If the ability was made an identifier, than why does it still have a special ability for deckbuilding purposes? When they used their "errata magic marker", why didn't they just slap the words, CANNOT BE NEGATED instead of making the ability an identifier? It would have made more sense and these types of questions (why can't I negate the 2/3 liners ability? or this question) wouldn't be around anymore.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #12 on:** September 15, 2010, 10:28:08 AM »

I think this falls into more of a "spirit of the game" sort of thing than legalism

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #13 on:** September 15, 2010, 10:58:11 AM »

it doesnt work cause its too OP'ed should not be an excuse in my book.

Gabe · « **Reply #14 on:** September 15, 2010, 10:59:45 AM »

The "special ability" is an identifier so it cannot be negated. This was done to avoid broken situations where you rescue the LS once but it counts for 2 in your Land of Redemption. But the Lost Souls also has a limitation just like all special ability Lost Soul cards, of 1 per 50.

You can argue that it doesn't make sense or line up with the current rules. I haven't had time to study them but your probably right. If that's the case then we need to review that and adjust the wording of the rules to accommodate the Lost Souls card. Still you're not going to find any tournament host that allows you to play 7 Lost Souls cards in your T1 deck.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #15 on:** September 15, 2010, 11:08:10 AM »

Here's my answer:

It says to treat the SA as an identifier. Thus it has an SA that has all the characteristics of an identifier. Thus it still has an SA. Should this be changed? Probably.

I would suggest either:

A. Modifying the rule to "All Lost Souls with SA's and/or identifiers have a limit of 1 per 50."
B. Changing the Errata to "This Lost Soul....Cannot be negated."

No other generic Lost Souls have identifiers. So I would probably go with A. But either would work.

Master Q · « **Reply #16 on:** September 15, 2010, 11:54:42 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 15, 2010, 11:08:10 AM

I would suggest either:

A. Modifying the rule to "All Lost Souls with SA's and/or identifiers have a limit of 1 per 50."
B. Changing the Errata to "This Lost Soul....Cannot be negated."

No other generic Lost Souls have identifiers. So I would probably go with A. But either would work.

I would agree entirely with either of these, I just want something that explains it better, because the way I was reading it was that its special ability was "removed" and placed in as an identifier, ergo no special ability, ergo more than 1. It would be completely broken to have more than 1 in a 50 card deck, as in, oh, instead of blocking an average of 4 times a game, now you only have to block once, play confusion on SoG, and gg.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #17 on:** September 15, 2010, 12:07:17 PM »

well that explains it away...i mean fixes it.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #18 on:** September 15, 2010, 12:16:44 PM »

Isn't OT/NT an identifier? We now have cards that target souls of a specific testament...

I vote for just slapping CBN on the ability and be done with it.

browarod · « **Reply #19 on:** September 15, 2010, 12:37:11 PM »

Quote from: Lamborghini_diablo on September 15, 2010, 12:16:44 PM

Isn't OT/NT an identifier? We now have cards that target souls of a specific testament...

OT and NT are only identifiers for cards that don't have printed verses (such as the emperors), I believe. For ones with printed verses, it's just a printed value on the card.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #20 on:** September 15, 2010, 01:12:51 PM »

I second the vote for a simple CBN.

adamfincher · « **Reply #21 on:** September 15, 2010, 01:19:18 PM »

I third this vote

Cpt.Jaeger · « **Reply #22 on:** September 15, 2010, 01:24:58 PM »

fourth it

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #23 on:** September 15, 2010, 01:37:14 PM »

I vote ban it

SomeKittens · « **Reply #24 on:** September 15, 2010, 04:33:03 PM »

It's not like this is a democratic process or anything.

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Author Topic: 2/3-Liner Question (Read 6506 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

browarod