Cactus Game Design Message Boards

I keep throwing this question out there,

Where do we copy/paste card abilities from? Do we have an updated list somewhere?

The PDF REG 1.0.1 was released today. The following changes were made:

Capture and Convert have had an addition made to "default conditions" for how to treat identifiers.
Choose Opponent was updated to reflect that it is a combination of Withdraw and Present.
Special conditions for Draw was updated to reflect what happens when a draw is negated.
Rescue was added as an instant special ability.
Toss was added as an ongoing special ability.
The definition of Battle Challenge was updated.
The definition of Covenant and Curse were updated.
The definition of Defeat was updated for clarity.
Correction made to the definition of Exodus Hero.
Generic Cards has two omissions added - Seraph (RA) and Philistine Armor Bearer (FF)
Correction made to the definition of Herod in the Title.
The definition of Instead was updated to reflect how cards with an end of battle condition are treated.
Added King Amaziah (RA2) to the list of good Kings and Queens of Judah and removed Herod Agrippa II (TP) from the evil list.
The definition of Opponent was updated to reflect that ownership and control are required.
Elijah was added to the list of Prophets.
Added the definition of Special Initiative.
The definition of Warrior-class and Weapon-class were updated to reflect the wording on the Kings insert card.

The next update will take place after Nationals, or after the new starter decks are released.

Additionally, under Default Conditions for Toss:

Enhancements disards to the toss ability must come from hand.
The strength of the discarded enhancement is determined by the face valye of the card.

First is missing a "c" in "discards".  Second needs to change to "value".

Special conditions for Draw was updated to reflect what happens when a draw is negated.

The portion from the new REG:

If a draw ability is negated, return the drawn cards into their previous order on the deck. If this cannot be done, shuffle the drawn cards together and topdeck them.

This does not say to undo abilities, nor whether cards played off of a "Play" ability are returned to deck.  Both of those have been sources of contention in the past, but this isn't clear enough to answer the questions currently.  What are the rulings, so that the wording can be updated?

Quote from: Redoubter on March 25, 2013, 08:07:26 PM

This does not say to undo abilities, nor whether cards played off of a "Play" ability are returned to deck.  Both of those have been sources of contention in the past, but this isn't clear enough to answer the questions currently.  What are the rulings, so that the wording can be updated?

Your approach to how you believe we should manage the REG indicates you believe we should include every possible scenario under every entry. That is not the belief of the elders, nor the way we chose to move forward with the REG starting back with the online version 2.0.

We do not choose to explain that Negate undoes an ability under the entry for Draw. If you want to learn what Negate does, then you need to look under the entry for Negate. Similarly, if you want to understand how Play abilities interact with another ability, look under the entry for Play.

Gabe, I don't think that we have to have every single card combination and scenario handled, but it seems the major interactions should be included.  This is a major scenario that is very common and can happen in almost all decks currently played, as drawing is in just about every deck and so are negates.

I did check the other entries, and there is nothing to indicate that the cards would not be returned in the case of a 'play' ability, and there is nothing in negate about cascading at all, let alone about undoing the abilities on cards that are returned to decks.  Based on the resources provided, a player new to the game would not know how these abilities interact.

That's my point, I'm not trying to be a pain, I just wanted to point out to you that the REG is not clear on this issue.  And considering it is a major rule that also has the potential to happen just about any game, I think it makes sense to include it somewhere in the REG, particularly since the rule has never been written anywhere except scattered posts on the boards here.

So the REG is eventually getting a web based version again then, not just a PDF, or am I reading this wrong?

There are no plans to go back to the web based version of the REG.

They are still on the web at redemptionlive.com. As far as I'm aware Rob isn't planning anything more.

Does anyone have a .zip file of all the card images? I could really use them for graphics and card creation.

The definition of Toss has been cleaned up. And I fixed Goliaht.

Ah, okay.  I know of a few other Visualizer cards that are incorrect; should have looked at the info identifier on the right 

Under Medo-Persian Sites on the REG, it says that no cards refer to Medo-Persian Sites; however, The Ram with Two Horns sets aside an opponent's hero for each of owner's Media sites (listed under Medo-Persian Sites as being one).  Persian Presidents is CBN if Lion's Den is in play, and Lion's Den is also listed in the REG as a Medo-Persian Site.

The reason it says that is that there is no card yet that says it targets a general Medo-Persian site (i.e. "Search deck for a Medo-Persian site", etc.). There are cards that target specific Medo-Persian sites (as you mentioned), but that is slightly different.

REG 1.0.2 Updates

Set-Aside entry updated for "How to Play" and "Special Conditions" sections.

Side Battle entry updated to reflect what how negates interact with side battles.

Definitions

Pagan Priests removed from Assyrians.

The following were added to Based on Prophecy - Angelic Guidance (I), Angelic News (I), Authority of Peter (I) and Grapes of Wrath (was removed).

Foreign Wives (XXVI) added to Canaanites.

The following were added to Connected with David - Temple Dedications (XXVI), Ishbibenob's Spear (I) and Ishbibenob's Sword (I).

The following were added to Connected with Demons - Evil Strength (J), Persistent Pestering (J), Twice Afflicted (J), Damsel with Spirit of Divination (TP), Elymas the Sorcerer (Di) and King Manasseh (Di).

The following were added to Demons - Controlling Demon (J), Foul Spirit (J), Possessing Demon (J) and Unclean Spirit (J).

The following were added to Depicting a Weapon - Overwhelming Presence (I), Shamgar’s Oxgoad (J), Sword of the Lord (J), The Sword of Gideon (J) and Trumpets and Torches (J).

The following were added to Depicting Weapons - Achan’s Sin (I), Crucify Him! (J), Fiery Darts (J), Ishbibenob's Spear (I), Ishbibenob's Sword (I), Lahmi's Spear (I), Roman Whip (J), Scattered (XXVI) and To Each His Own (I). Under the Shield of Faith section added Fiery Darts (J), Ishbibenob's Spear (I) and Lahmi's Spear (I),

Kidron Valley (XXVI) was added to the list of cards that refer to Depicting an Idol. These cards were added to the list of Depicting an Idol - Ashtaroth Worship (Boulden) (Pr), Ashtaroth Worship (Hodgson) (Pr) and Ashtaroth Worship (I).

The following were added to the list of Disciples - Andrew (I), James (I), John (I) and Peter (I).

Solomon's Temple (XXVI) was added to the list of unique Tabernacle/Temples under Duplicate Cards.

The following were added to the list of Earthly Battle - Gideon (J), Jephthah (J), King Abijam (good) (XXVI), Samson (J), Shamgar (J), Achan (I), Emperor Tiberius (J), Foreign Spearman (XXVI),Ishbibenob (I), King Abijam (evil) (XXVI), Lahmi (I), Mocking Soldiers (J), Pontius Pilate (Di), Pilate’s Soldiers (J), Quinirius (J), Saph (I), Shaphat (F) and Shaphat (I).

Foreign Wives (XXVI) was added to the list of Egyptians.

Fiery Darts (J) was added to the list of Ephesians 6 Enhancements.

Definition added for Face Down.

Ashtaroth Worship (I) was added to False Religious Practice.

The following were added to the list of Generic Cards - Angel at Bethesda (I), Elders of the City (J), Gathering Angel (I), Legion of Angels (I), Temple Priests (XXVI), Controlling Demon (J), Foreign Spearman (XXVI), Foul Spirit (J), Mocking Soldiers (J), Pilate’s Soldiers (J), Possessing Demon (J) and Unclean Spirit (J).

The following were added to the list of Giants - Ishbibenob (I), Lahmi (I) and Saph (I).

Golden Cherubim (XXVI) was added to the list of Herod's Temple Artifacts.

Definition added for Identifier.

The following were added to the list of cards Involving Music - Sing and Praise (J) and Temple Dedication (XXVI).

Foreign Spearman (XXVI) was added to the list of Jeremiah Cards.

Angel at Bethesda (I) was added to the list of John Heroes.

When Judges Governed (J) was added to the list of cards that refer to Judges. The following were added to the list of Judges - Gideon (J), Jephthah (J), Samson (J), Shamgar (J) and Abimelech (Pa).

The following were added to the entry for Judges Hero - Gideon (J), Jephthah (J), Samson (J), Shamgar (J) and Delilah (I).

The following were added to the list of Judges Enhancements - Gideon's Call (J), Samson's Strength (J), Shamgar’s Oxgoad (J), Sing and Praise (J), Sword of the Lord (J), The Sword of Gideon (J), Trumpets and Torches (J), To Each His Own (I) and Wickedness of Delilah (I).

King Abijam (good and evil) (XXVI) was added to the list of Kings.

Solomon’s Temple (XXVI) was added to the list of cards that refer to Kings and Queens of Judah. King Abijam (good and evil) (XXVI) was added to the list of  Kings and Queens of Judah.

Scattered (XXVI) was added to the list of Leviticus Enhancements.

The following were added to the list of Luke Enhancements - Angelic News (I), Glad Tidings (I), Miraculous Catch (I), Persistent Pestering (J), Sorrow of Mary (J) and Twice Afflicted (J).

The following were added to the list of Luke Heroes - Andrew (I), Gabriel (I), Gabriel (I), James (I), John (I) and Peter (I).

REG 1.0.2 has been fully added into the Wiki. 

The starters will be in sometime tomorrow.