Author Topic: Edomites (Read 17153 times)

spacy32 · « **on:** June 22, 2016, 05:17:26 PM »

I was doing some research and it has come to my attention that Herod the Great was an Edomite.

During the Maccabean wars, the Edomites were subjugated by the Jews and forced to convert to Judaism. Through it all, the Edomites maintained much of their old hatred for the Jews. When Greek became the common language, the Edomites were called Idumaeans. With the rise of the Roman Empire, an Idumaean whose father had converted to Judaism was named king of Judea. That Idumaean is known in history as King Herod the Great, the tyrant who ordered a massacre in Bethlehem in an attempt to kill the Christ child (Matthew 2:16-18).

I am trying to find out if this is fact. Any help would be appreciated and if proven, would this mean the REG will be updated

Ironisaac · « **Reply #1 on:** June 22, 2016, 07:38:02 PM »

I think it might be a bit of a long stretch to say that Herod the great was an Edomite. From what I researched, his father was from the land that was previously edom, but was not an Edomite himself.

spacy32 · « **Reply #2 on:** June 22, 2016, 10:22:24 PM »

What about this:

A prominent city in Edom was Petra. This city, accessible only through a narrow canyon within cavernous mountain walls, was featured in the movie Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. In the fifth century B.C., a people called the Nabateans defeated the Edomites and removed them from Petra. The Edomites were forced to move to southern Palestine in an area that would become known as Idumea. In the New Testament, Herod the Great, who commanded the murder of all boys two years old and younger in Bethlehem (Matthew 2), was an Idumean.

Another reference

spacy32 · « **Reply #3 on:** June 22, 2016, 10:23:41 PM »

and other Edomites:

31 cThese are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom, before any king reigned over the Israelites. 32 Bela the son of Beor reigned in Edom, the name of his city being Dinhabah. 33 Bela died, and Jobab the son of Zerah of Bozrah reigned in his place. 34 Jobab died, and Husham of the land of the Temanites reigned in his place. 35 Husham died, and Hadad the son of Bedad, who defeated Midian in the country of Moab, reigned in his place, the name of his city being Avith. 36 Hadad died, and Samlah of Masrekah reigned in his place. 37 Samlah died, and Shaul of dRehoboth on the Euphrates2 reigned in his place. 38 Shaul died, and Baal-hanan the son of Achbor reigned in his place. 39 Baal-hanan the son of Achbor died, and Hadar reigned in his place, the name of his city being Pau; his wife’s name was Mehetabel, the daughter of Matred, daughter of Mezahab.

spacy32 · « **Reply #4 on:** June 22, 2016, 11:25:56 PM »

Quote from: spacy32 on June 22, 2016, 10:23:41 PM

and other Edomites:

31 cThese are the kings who reigned in the land of Edom, before any king reigned over the Israelites. 32 Bela the son of Beor reigned in Edom, the name of his city being Dinhabah. 33 Bela died, and Jobab the son of Zerah of Bozrah reigned in his place. 34 Jobab died, and Husham of the land of the Temanites reigned in his place. 35 Husham died, and Hadad the son of Bedad, who defeated Midian in the country of Moab, reigned in his place, the name of his city being Avith. 36 Hadad died, and Samlah of Masrekah reigned in his place. 37 Samlah died, and Shaul of dRehoboth on the Euphrates2 reigned in his place. 38 Shaul died, and Baal-hanan the son of Achbor reigned in his place. 39 Baal-hanan the son of Achbor died, and Hadar reigned in his place, the name of his city being Pau; his wife’s name was Mehetabel, the daughter of Matred, daughter of Mezahab.

I forgot this is Genesis 36

Gabe · « **Reply #5 on:** June 22, 2016, 11:37:17 PM »

What is the source of your first quote?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #6 on:** June 23, 2016, 12:10:52 AM »

Wait, he isn't considered an Edomite? All the Herods should be.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #7 on:** June 23, 2016, 12:12:28 AM »

Relevant quote from a google search that quotes Josephus:

Bible Question:
Was King Herod a descendant of Esau?

Bible Answer:
Flavius Joephus (approx. A.D. 30 – 100), the Jewish historian, tells us that Esau’s descendants inhabited the region of Idumea at least two times in his writings.

. . . and these were the sons of Esau. Aliphaz had five legitimate sons: Theman, Omer, Saphus, Gotham, and Kanaz; for Amalek was not legitimate, but by a concubine, whose name was Thamna. These dwelt in that part of Idumea . . . (Josephus. The Antiquities of the Jews. Book 2, Chap. 2).

So he fell upon the Idumeans, the posterity of Esau, at Acrabattene, and slew a great many of them, and took their spoils. (Josephus. The Antiquities of the Jews. Book 12, Chap.

.

This means the Idumeans were considered to be the descendants of Esau. Then in chapter 12, Josephus tells us that King Herod was an Idumean. This means that King Herod the Great was a descendant of Esau.

. . . but Antigonus, by way of reply to what Herod had caused to be proclaimed, and this before the Romans, and before Silo also, said, that they would not do justly if they gave the kingdom to Herod, who was no more than a private man, and an Idumean . . . (Josephus. The Antiquities of the Jews. Book 12, Chap.

.

Conclusion:
The secular historian Flavius Josephus tells us that King Herod the Great was a descendant of Esau. Herod’s father was an Idumean and his mother was an Arab.

TheJaylor · « **Reply #8 on:** June 23, 2016, 03:06:17 AM »

And I'm a descendant of Adam, does that make me a Garden of Edenian?

Ironisaac · « **Reply #9 on:** June 23, 2016, 08:06:56 AM »

Imo, an Edomite and an Idumean are two different things. Edomites were people from the country of edom. Idumeans were people from Idumea. Just because they are the same region doesn't mean they are the same country. Plus, it's two completely different time periods.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #10 on:** June 23, 2016, 11:16:29 AM »

Quote from: Ironisaac on June 23, 2016, 08:06:56 AM

Imo, an Edomite and an Idumean are two different things. Edomites were people from the country of edom. Idumeans were people from Idumea. Just because they are the same region doesn't mean they are the same country. Plus, it's two completely different time periods.

Idumean is the greek word for edomite

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #11 on:** June 23, 2016, 12:18:57 PM »

I always just assumed the Herods were Edomites because that's what they are in history. I used to be fascinated by that sick little dynasty.

spacy32 · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2016, 04:02:38 PM »

I just ask on this website

http://www.gotquestions.org/

It's amazing what you find on there. Then of course I check to make sure it is biblically sound

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2016, 10:22:57 PM »

Still waiting for officials confirmation on the obvious truth

Redoubter · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2016, 05:39:31 PM »

This will be added to our discussions, but we will all have to review the historical documents that are acceptable for Redemption purposes and determine from those whether such a determination can be made. At this time, I don't believe that we are ready to make a snap judgement that they are Edomites, but will continue the discussion and report back.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #15 on:** June 27, 2016, 10:32:31 AM »

Idumeans literally redirects to Edom on wikipedia. Herod the great being Edomite has 5 references on Wikipedia.

kariusvega · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2016, 10:46:40 AM »

if you google 'were herods edomites' a lot comes up

Redoubter · « **Reply #17 on:** June 27, 2016, 11:54:43 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on June 27, 2016, 10:32:31 AM

Idumeans literally redirects to Edom on wikipedia. Herod the great being Edomite has 5 references on Wikipedia.

We won't be using Wikipedia or straight Google searches as our source, though the Josephus references you provided earlier will be examined and will prove useful in reaching a conclusion.

I didn't say that we have decided against Herods being Edomites (far from it), but that we will need to discuss it as a group to complete the research and determine the ruling based on sources that can be used for Redemption purposes. I would expect a response within two weeks, but none of us are going to make snap judgments on this (just like every other identifier discussion).

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #18 on:** June 29, 2016, 07:55:32 PM »

Speaking of which, where are we at with the Bible saying Moses is a Priest but Redemption saying otherwise?

Redoubter · « **Reply #19 on:** June 29, 2016, 08:59:48 PM »

Moses and Samuel were already on the agenda to be discussed alongside this item. The official responses will come at the same time.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #20 on:** June 30, 2016, 06:38:28 PM »

Could we see that list, or at least the portion of the list that has already been publicly discussed?

Noah · « **Reply #21 on:** June 30, 2016, 07:02:19 PM »

While we're talking about who's who and what's what, is Balaam a Canaanite?

Gabe · « **Reply #22 on:** June 30, 2016, 07:25:17 PM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 30, 2016, 06:38:28 PM

Could we see that list, or at least the portion of the list that has already been publicly discussed?

What list? If you mean our agenda for our next call I don't believe that's something we wish to share publicly.

Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on June 30, 2016, 07:02:19 PM

While we're talking about who's who and what's what, is Balaam a Canaanite?

What is the basis for the question? Without presenting evidence you might as well be asking if he was also Chinese.

spacy32 · « **Reply #23 on:** July 01, 2016, 02:14:14 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on June 30, 2016, 07:25:17 PM

Quote from: Minister Polarius on June 30, 2016, 06:38:28 PM
Could we see that list, or at least the portion of the list that has already been publicly discussed?

What list? If you mean our agenda for our next call I don't believe that's something we wish to share publicly.

Quote from: tripleplayNo3 on June 30, 2016, 07:02:19 PM
While we're talking about who's who and what's what, is Balaam a Canaanite?

What is the basis for the question? Without presenting evidence you might as well be asking if he was also Chinese.

Since you bring it up...was he chinese?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #24 on:** July 01, 2016, 08:14:47 AM »

Quote from: Redoubter on June 27, 2016, 11:54:43 AM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on June 27, 2016, 10:32:31 AM
Idumeans literally redirects to Edom on wikipedia. Herod the great being Edomite has 5 references on Wikipedia.

We won't be using Wikipedia or straight Google searches as our source, though the Josephus references you provided earlier will be examined and will prove useful in reaching a conclusion.

I didn't say that we have decided against Herods being Edomites (far from it), but that we will need to discuss it as a group to complete the research and determine the ruling based on sources that can be used for Redemption purposes. I would expect a response within two weeks, but none of us are going to make snap judgments on this (just like every other identifier discussion).

Hey man,

if you notice, I said that wikipedia has five references. even wikipedia isn't dumb enough to cite itself, so presumably Herod the Great as an Edomite is pretty well established given those references and wikipedia's well known 99% accuracy. citing references gathered by wikipedia isn't wikipedia.

News:

Author Topic: Edomites (Read 17153 times)

kariusvega