REG Corrections and Updates

[RTSmaniac]

I keep throwing this question out there,

Where do we copy/paste card abilities from? Do we have an updated list somewhere?

[Captain Kirk]

King Amaziah (RA2) is listed as an evil king of Judah rather than a good king of Judah (pg 111).

Kirk

[Gabe]

The PDF REG 1.0.1 was released today. The following changes were made:

Capture and Convert have had an addition made to "default conditions" for how to treat identifiers.
Choose Opponent was updated to reflect that it is a combination of Withdraw and Present.
Special conditions for Draw was updated to reflect what happens when a draw is negated.
Rescue was added as an instant special ability.
Toss was added as an ongoing special ability.
The definition of Battle Challenge was updated.
The definition of Covenant and Curse were updated.
The definition of Defeat was updated for clarity.
Correction made to the definition of Exodus Hero.
Generic Cards has two omissions added - Seraph (RA) and Philistine Armor Bearer (FF)
Correction made to the definition of Herod in the Title.
The definition of Instead was updated to reflect how cards with an end of battle condition are treated.
Added King Amaziah (RA2) to the list of good Kings and Queens of Judah and removed Herod Agrippa II (TP) from the evil list.
The definition of Opponent was updated to reflect that ownership and control are required.
Elijah was added to the list of Prophets.
Added the definition of Special Initiative.
The definition of Warrior-class and Weapon-class were updated to reflect the wording on the Kings insert card.

The next update will take place after Nationals, or after the new starter decks are released.

[Lamborghini_diablo]

General Description
A toss ability allows a player to discard an enhancement to decrease an opposing character in battle.

This has to be on a new card, because I've NEVER seen this ability before.

Also, something happened between Toss and Site Access... quite a bit of text is missing.

*EDIT*

After reading the definition of Toss... I'm REALLY hoping some new brown cards get this ability. Decrease is such a cool strategy.

[Mageduckey]

Additionally, under Default Conditions for Toss:

Enhancements disards to the toss ability must come from hand.
The strength of the discarded enhancement is determined by the face valye of the card.

First is missing a "c" in "discards".  Second needs to change to "value".

[Gabe]

Thanks guys. Something went awry there. Note to self, if your going to post a new entry try to get it right. 

[Redoubter]

Special conditions for Draw was updated to reflect what happens when a draw is negated.

The portion from the new REG:

If a draw ability is negated, return the drawn cards into their previous order on the deck. If this cannot be done, shuffle the drawn cards together and topdeck them.

This does not say to undo abilities, nor whether cards played off of a "Play" ability are returned to deck.  Both of those have been sources of contention in the past, but this isn't clear enough to answer the questions currently.  What are the rulings, so that the wording can be updated?

[Gabe]

This does not say to undo abilities, nor whether cards played off of a "Play" ability are returned to deck.  Both of those have been sources of contention in the past, but this isn't clear enough to answer the questions currently.  What are the rulings, so that the wording can be updated?

Your approach to how you believe we should manage the REG indicates you believe we should include every possible scenario under every entry. That is not the belief of the elders, nor the way we chose to move forward with the REG starting back with the online version 2.0.

We do not choose to explain that Negate undoes an ability under the entry for Draw. If you want to learn what Negate does, then you need to look under the entry for Negate. Similarly, if you want to understand how Play abilities interact with another ability, look under the entry for Play.

[Redoubter]

This does not say to undo abilities, nor whether cards played off of a "Play" ability are returned to deck.  Both of those have been sources of contention in the past, but this isn't clear enough to answer the questions currently.  What are the rulings, so that the wording can be updated?

Your approach to how you believe we should manage the REG indicates you believe we should include every possible scenario under every entry. That is not the belief of the elders, nor the way we chose to move forward with the REG starting back with the online version 2.0.

We do not choose to explain that Negate undoes an ability under the entry for Draw. If you want to learn what Negate does, then you need to look under the entry for Negate. Similarly, if you want to understand how Play abilities interact with another ability, look under the entry for Play.

Gabe, I don't think that we have to have every single card combination and scenario handled, but it seems the major interactions should be included.  This is a major scenario that is very common and can happen in almost all decks currently played, as drawing is in just about every deck and so are negates.

I did check the other entries, and there is nothing to indicate that the cards would not be returned in the case of a 'play' ability, and there is nothing in negate about cascading at all, let alone about undoing the abilities on cards that are returned to decks.  Based on the resources provided, a player new to the game would not know how these abilities interact.

That's my point, I'm not trying to be a pain, I just wanted to point out to you that the REG is not clear on this issue.  And considering it is a major rule that also has the potential to happen just about any game, I think it makes sense to include it somewhere in the REG, particularly since the rule has never been written anywhere except scattered posts on the boards here.

[lp670sv]

Your approach to how you believe we should manage the REG indicates you believe we should include every possible scenario under every entry. That is not the belief of the elders, nor the way we chose to move forward with the REG starting back with the online version 2.0.

We do not choose to explain that Negate undoes an ability under the entry for Draw. If you want to learn what Negate does, then you need to look under the entry for Negate. Similarly, if you want to understand how Play abilities interact with another ability, look under the entry for Play.

So the REG is eventually getting a web based version again then, not just a PDF, or am I reading this wrong?

[Gabe]

So the REG is eventually getting a web based version again then, not just a PDF, or am I reading this wrong?

There are no plans to go back to the web based version of the REG.

[drb1200]

So the REG is eventually getting a web based version again then, not just a PDF, or am I reading this wrong?

There are no plans to go back to the web based version of the REG.

Will all the card images be back on the web soon?

[Gabe]

They are still on the web at redemptionlive.com. As far as I'm aware Rob isn't planning anything more.

[Drrek]

They are still on the web at redemptionlive.com. As far as I'm aware Rob isn't planning anything more.

I don't know if anyone else has a problem with this, but I find it is often very annoying to have to load up the visualizer to look at cards every time I want to check a special ability.  It can take a while for it to load up, and I find will freeze on my laptop a good amount of the time.  I would much prefer if we could have somewhere for quick reference of the cards.

[drb1200]

Does anyone have a .zip file of all the card images? I could really use them for graphics and card creation.

[Ken4Christ4ever]

I have .zip files by expansion on Three Lions Gaming http://www.threelionsgaming.com/images20948583%26kjfi01.html

[Gabe]

The definition of Toss has been cleaned up. And I fixed Goliaht.

[Mageduckey]

Ah, okay.  I know of a few other Visualizer cards that are incorrect; should have looked at the info identifier on the right 

Under Medo-Persian Sites on the REG, it says that no cards refer to Medo-Persian Sites; however, The Ram with Two Horns sets aside an opponent's hero for each of owner's Media sites (listed under Medo-Persian Sites as being one).  Persian Presidents is CBN if Lion's Den is in play, and Lion's Den is also listed in the REG as a Medo-Persian Site.

[Professoralstad]

Ah, okay.  I know of a few other Visualizer cards that are incorrect; should have looked at the info identifier on the right 

Under Medo-Persian Sites on the REG, it says that no cards refer to Medo-Persian Sites; however, The Ram with Two Horns sets aside an opponent's hero for each of owner's Media sites (listed under Medo-Persian Sites as being one).  Persian Presidents is CBN if Lion's Den is in play, and Lion's Den is also listed in the REG as a Medo-Persian Site.

The reason it says that is that there is no card yet that says it targets a general Medo-Persian site (i.e. "Search deck for a Medo-Persian site", etc.). There are cards that target specific Medo-Persian sites (as you mentioned), but that is slightly different.

[Gabe]

Face down cards that in the the field of play will no longer be considered "out of play". This is an archaic rule that's unintuitive. While it may have had a purpose at one time, it does not any longer. We will remove face down cards from the definition of "Out of Play" in the next REG update. Additionally, we will add the following definition for "Face Down Cards".

Face Down Cards

Face Down cards are cards in territories, battle, and set-aside areas that are face down either due to special ability, or are inactive artifacts in an artifact pile. Face down cards have no abilities, brigade, titles, or identifiers while they are face down. The only known attribute of a face down card is the card type. Face down cards are only targetable by abilities that specify they can target face down cards or inactive artifacts, or cards that can target any or all cards in a location. When a face down card enters battle, it is immediately flipped face up, unless otherwise specified by the special ability that flipped it face down.

[Gabe]

REG 1.0.2 Updates

Set-Aside entry updated for "How to Play" and "Special Conditions" sections.

Side Battle entry updated to reflect what how negates interact with side battles.

Definitions

Pagan Priests removed from Assyrians.

The following were added to Based on Prophecy - Angelic Guidance (I), Angelic News (I), Authority of Peter (I) and Grapes of Wrath (was removed).

Foreign Wives (XXVI) added to Canaanites.

The following were added to Connected with David - Temple Dedications (XXVI), Ishbibenob's Spear (I) and Ishbibenob's Sword (I).

The following were added to Connected with Demons - Evil Strength (J), Persistent Pestering (J), Twice Afflicted (J), Damsel with Spirit of Divination (TP), Elymas the Sorcerer (Di) and King Manasseh (Di).

The following were added to Demons - Controlling Demon (J), Foul Spirit (J), Possessing Demon (J) and Unclean Spirit (J).

The following were added to Depicting a Weapon - Overwhelming Presence (I), Shamgar’s Oxgoad (J), Sword of the Lord (J), The Sword of Gideon (J) and Trumpets and Torches (J).

The following were added to Depicting Weapons - Achan’s Sin (I), Crucify Him! (J), Fiery Darts (J), Ishbibenob's Spear (I), Ishbibenob's Sword (I), Lahmi's Spear (I), Roman Whip (J), Scattered (XXVI) and To Each His Own (I). Under the Shield of Faith section added Fiery Darts (J), Ishbibenob's Spear (I) and Lahmi's Spear (I),

Kidron Valley (XXVI) was added to the list of cards that refer to Depicting an Idol. These cards were added to the list of Depicting an Idol - Ashtaroth Worship (Boulden) (Pr), Ashtaroth Worship (Hodgson) (Pr) and Ashtaroth Worship (I).

The following were added to the list of Disciples - Andrew (I), James (I), John (I) and Peter (I).

Solomon's Temple (XXVI) was added to the list of unique Tabernacle/Temples under Duplicate Cards.

The following were added to the list of Earthly Battle - Gideon (J), Jephthah (J), King Abijam (good) (XXVI), Samson (J), Shamgar (J), Achan (I), Emperor Tiberius (J), Foreign Spearman (XXVI),Ishbibenob (I), King Abijam (evil) (XXVI), Lahmi (I), Mocking Soldiers (J), Pontius Pilate (Di), Pilate’s Soldiers (J), Quinirius (J), Saph (I), Shaphat (F) and Shaphat (I).

Foreign Wives (XXVI) was added to the list of Egyptians.

Fiery Darts (J) was added to the list of Ephesians 6 Enhancements.

Definition added for Face Down.

Ashtaroth Worship (I) was added to False Religious Practice.

The following were added to the list of Generic Cards - Angel at Bethesda (I), Elders of the City (J), Gathering Angel (I), Legion of Angels (I), Temple Priests (XXVI), Controlling Demon (J), Foreign Spearman (XXVI), Foul Spirit (J), Mocking Soldiers (J), Pilate’s Soldiers (J), Possessing Demon (J) and Unclean Spirit (J).

The following were added to the list of Giants - Ishbibenob (I), Lahmi (I) and Saph (I).

Golden Cherubim (XXVI) was added to the list of Herod's Temple Artifacts.

Definition added for Identifier.

The following were added to the list of cards Involving Music - Sing and Praise (J) and Temple Dedication (XXVI).

Foreign Spearman (XXVI) was added to the list of Jeremiah Cards.

Angel at Bethesda (I) was added to the list of John Heroes.

When Judges Governed (J) was added to the list of cards that refer to Judges. The following were added to the list of Judges - Gideon (J), Jephthah (J), Samson (J), Shamgar (J) and Abimelech (Pa).

The following were added to the entry for Judges Hero - Gideon (J), Jephthah (J), Samson (J), Shamgar (J) and Delilah (I).

The following were added to the list of Judges Enhancements - Gideon's Call (J), Samson's Strength (J), Shamgar’s Oxgoad (J), Sing and Praise (J), Sword of the Lord (J), The Sword of Gideon (J), Trumpets and Torches (J), To Each His Own (I) and Wickedness of Delilah (I).

King Abijam (good and evil) (XXVI) was added to the list of Kings.

Solomon’s Temple (XXVI) was added to the list of cards that refer to Kings and Queens of Judah. King Abijam (good and evil) (XXVI) was added to the list of  Kings and Queens of Judah.

Scattered (XXVI) was added to the list of Leviticus Enhancements.

The following were added to the list of Luke Enhancements - Angelic News (I), Glad Tidings (I), Miraculous Catch (I), Persistent Pestering (J), Sorrow of Mary (J) and Twice Afflicted (J).

The following were added to the list of Luke Heroes - Andrew (I), Gabriel (I), Gabriel (I), James (I), John (I) and Peter (I).

[Gabe]

REG Update 1.0.2 continued...

The following were added to the list of Matthew Enhancements - Angelic Guidance (Ap), Authority of Peter (I), Fishers of Men (I), Overwhelming Presence (I), Walking on Water (I), Wonderment (I), Crucify Him! (J), Hypocrite’s Proselyte (J) and Roman Whip (J).

Face-down cards were removed the definition of Out of Play.

The following were added to the list of Philistines - Delilah (I), Ishbibenob (I), Lahmi (I) and Saph (I).

The following were added to cards that refer to a Priest - Kidron Valley (XXVI) and King Abijam (XXVI). Temple Priests (XXVI) was added to the list of Priests.

The following were added to the list of Prophets - Angel with the Secret Name (RA2), Gabriel (I), John (I) and Peter (I).

Quinirius (J) was added to the list of cards that refer to a Roman. The following cards were added to the list of Romans - Emperor Tiberius (J), Mocking Soldiers (J), Pilate’s Soldiers (J) and Quinirius (J).

Emperor Tiberius (J) was added to the list of Roman Emperors.

The following were added to the list of Roman Soldiers - Mocking Soldiers (J) and Pilate’s Soldiers (J)

The following were added to the list of Royal Family - King Abijam (good and evil) (XXVI), Emperor Tiberius (J) and Foreign Wives (XXVI).

Definitions added for Ruth Card, Ruth Enhancement and Ruth Hero.

The following were added to the list of cards that refer to Solomon's Temple Priests - Solomon’s Temple (XXVI) and Temple Dedication (XXVI). Temple Priests (XXVI) was added to the list of Solomon's Temple Priests.

Quinirius (J) was added to the list of Syrians.

Book of the Law (Pi) was added to the list of Tabernacle Artifacts.

The definition of Temple Artifact was updated. The following were added to the list of cards that refer to Temple Artifact - King Abijam (XXVI), Temple Dedication (XXVI) and Temple Priests (XXVI). Golden Cherubim (XXVI) was added to the list of Temple Artifacts.

The definition of Turn was updated.

Golden Cherubim (XXVI) was added to the list of Zerubbabel's Temple Artifacts.

[Lamborghini_diablo]

REG 1.0.2 has been fully added into the Wiki. 

The starters will be in sometime tomorrow.

[Redoubter]

Thread is locked for archive purposes.  Please make any new notes in the 2015 REG Update Thread at this time.

Thank you.