Author Topic: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)  (Read 13000 times)

Offline Prof Underwood

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Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« on: September 26, 2011, 05:33:33 AM »
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Please post here specifically with feedback regarding how the limitation of ONLY being able to take LSs from your opponent affected your games during the October ROOT :)

Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2011, 09:42:35 AM »
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One thing I would like to suggest is that people be gracious with this rule change, that is, if someone tries to use SoG/NJ defensively and/or tries to win with no LS's in your opponent's LoB, that they be allowed to take their Big Two back. It will still be a disadvantage (since the opponent will know you have them) but since this is a new rule, even experienced players may forget.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2011, 09:57:32 AM »
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One thing I would like to suggest is that people be gracious with this rule change, that is, if someone tries to use SoG/NJ defensively and/or tries to win with no LS's in your opponent's LoB, that they be allowed to take their Big Two back. It will still be a disadvantage (since the opponent will know you have them) but since this is a new rule, even experienced players may forget.
I completely agree with this being the expectation.

slugfencer

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2011, 11:33:14 PM »
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Praeceps=4
me=4

GG!
 :)

The new SOG rule absolutely affected this game--
last turn score 3=him, 4=me
he is rescuing and I have 1 LS in my LOB and he has 1 in his LOB,
we have a good battle, and he wins the soul.
Tie 4-4, and he had SOG in hand which he easily woulda won with by rescuing his own LS under original rule.

Offline Praeceps

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2011, 11:41:37 PM »
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I was playing a game earlier against Polarius in which he had me dead to rights but couldn't end it for a fair bit because I didn't have the LSs he could play his SoG on while he had 5 locked down in sites.
Just one more thing...

Offline soul seeker

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2011, 03:07:18 PM »
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My opponent and I agree that using SoG/NJ would have delayed the game a little giving hope to the one that was behind.  However, the outcome seemed pretty set by the time the Doms were played.

I will tell you this though.  I wasn't as concerned about either of the big 2 getting "Mayhemed" because I knew i couldn't use them right away.
noob with a medal

lp670sv

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2011, 03:09:19 PM »
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Agreed. would not have affected the outcome at all, he still would have beaten me quite easily but it would have given me a few more turns to fail to break through his defenses

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #7 on: September 30, 2011, 01:26:59 AM »
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The rule really didn't affect my first game this month.  We both always had LSs available for the taking the whole game.  It was just the taking of them that was difficult :)

Offline Captain Kirk

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2011, 05:44:25 PM »
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If I could have played Son of God on my opponent's shuffler it may have been helpful in getting back some important captured heroes. However the game didn't last long enough where it mattered.

Kirk
Friends don't let friends play T1 multi.

lp670sv

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2011, 05:46:53 PM »
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You can play son of god on his shuffler. The only rule we're testing out is restricting players to only be able to rescue opponents souls.

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2011, 06:10:20 PM »
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Perhaps he means his opponent's only LS was Shuffler and he had one NJ could have rescued?
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

lp670sv

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2011, 08:19:44 PM »
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Little bit of a hiccup in this one. From my understanding this rule was supposed to make games longer and keeps scores closer, in this one it actually helped me win faster since he couldn't SOG/NJ his own souls. Because of that I ended up not even using NJ. Even with the speed deck I play he still got soul drought for the last couple turns, he rescued two I buried the two liner and got to use his shuffler on two more. I'm not sure one game is enough to cause a lot of worry about it, could be a minor hiccup but it definitely backfired this game

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2011, 08:28:12 PM »
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A major problem is that he was using Shuffler. Shuffler is just a huge liability with the test rule.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

lp670sv

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2011, 08:50:21 PM »
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A major problem is that he was using Shuffler. Shuffler is just a huge liability with the test rule.

Not necassarily, If i have 5 lost souls in my Land of Bondage it's still useful to get them off the board and even more so now that I have to draw to, not drawing 2 between the two of us

Offline katedid

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2011, 11:33:40 PM »
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The issue never came up. I never even had SOG/NJ in hand ever and if he did never had to play them. He killed off my offense and we both killed each others defense off. Really, negating my site block with Wheel became the decider.

Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2011, 11:41:19 PM »
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In my game tonight, the LS rule worked as intended.  My opponent got to an early lead, but then my LoB ran out of souls for a while, and it gave me time to come back.  I still ended up losing, but it was closer than it probably would've been, and therefore was more fun :)

Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #16 on: October 06, 2011, 12:07:42 AM »
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In my most recent ROOT game, the rule change didn't matter at all in the game. It did, however, influence the type of deck I used.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #17 on: October 06, 2011, 04:23:00 PM »
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While it didn't influence who won, it made it a much tenser game.  It's incredibly irritating to have SoG in hand with 4 redeemed, and your opp can't draw souls.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Professoralstad

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #18 on: October 06, 2011, 04:35:57 PM »
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While it didn't influence who won, it made it a much tenser game. 

I agree. While I was the one who benefited most from the rule, I still don't know how I feel about it. We were both playing fast decks, with mine a bit more designed to abuse the rule, but I had to slow down significantly in order to benefit the most, so I guess that's a positive. The downside I see is that I don't think it will really hurt speed, so much as just change it slightly to accomodate the rule.

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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #19 on: October 06, 2011, 08:51:07 PM »
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Use Watertomb and you'll be completely unaffected by the rule.
I am not talking about T2 unless I am explicitly talking about T2. Also Mayhem is fine now somehow!

Chronic Apathy

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #20 on: October 06, 2011, 09:05:55 PM »
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It hasn't affected me in any of the games I've played with it (including some non-ROOT games), however, I am fully and completely against it. As has been mentioned several times, it won't stop speed, merely change it slightly, and in the mean time, you're effectively encouraging luck over skill.

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #21 on: October 06, 2011, 09:51:28 PM »
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you're effectively encouraging luck over skill.
Exactly.  I foresee a vast increase in the number of games that are determined by soul drought.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #22 on: October 07, 2011, 09:34:11 AM »
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As has been mentioned several times, it won't stop speed
I foresee a vast increase in the number of games that are determined by soul drought.
This just doesn't make any sense.  One the one hand people are saying this won't affect speed.  On the other hand they are saying that LS drought slows things down.  LS drought will NEVER slow down a defense heavy deck, because they don't really attack until later in the game, and by that time the speed deck has all their LSs on the table anyway.  LS drought is ONLY a problem for speed decks that get everything they need right away and then are frustrated that there is no LS to take with it.

Therefore, LS drought becoming an issue will by necessity ONLY hurt speed decks.

While it didn't influence who won, it made it a much tenser game.
This is EXACTLY what I'm hoping for.  Tenser games are more fun for both players, and when they finish the loser feels like they had a chance.  That is improvement over the meta the past few years.

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #23 on: October 07, 2011, 09:58:19 AM »
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While it didn't influence who won, it made it a much tenser game.
This is EXACTLY what I'm hoping for.  Tenser games are more fun for both players, and when they finish the loser feels like they had a chance.  That is improvement over the meta the past few years.
No, they're not more fun.  Intense games, where two skilled players fight it out using various tips and tricks to get the upper hand, are great.  Games like the one I just played are tense because the winner will be determined not by skill, but by factors outside of the players control.

And speed still is king, because while I'll draw all my souls, I also draw all my soul manipulation.
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Feedback on Opp LSs ONLY (used in Oct ROOT)
« Reply #24 on: October 07, 2011, 10:07:19 AM »
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games, where two skilled players fight it out using various tips and tricks to get the upper hand, are great.  Games like the one I just played are tense because the winner will be determined not by skill, but by factors outside of the players control.
I disagree.  If LS drought was making your game intense, then it was because you were playing a speed deck that already gotten close to winning, but the lack of LSs was preventing it.  Your opponent was coming back because you didn't have enough defense to stop them.  That situation is entirely within your control at the deck-building stage.  You should learn from that experience that your deck needs more defense so that while you're waiting for LSs to show up you can keep your opponent from catching up to your lead.

And more players making that adjustment means less speed, and more fun balanced games.  Woot!

 


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