Author Topic: Feedback on 1st turn limits (used in Jan ROOT) (Read 14544 times)

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #25 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:36:12 PM »

It's worth noting that, if the rule is indeed D3, this essentially becomes an intro prep that's more advantageous to speed, since you could theoretically play two set-aside enhancements instead of one.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #26 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:38:56 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 28, 2011, 05:36:12 PM

It's worth noting that, if the rule is indeed D3, this essentially becomes an intro prep that's more advantageous to speed, since you could theoretically play two set-aside enhancements instead of one.

Wait, how does the rule becoming D3 change how setasides work?

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #27 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:40:22 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:38:56 PM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 28, 2011, 05:36:12 PM
It's worth noting that, if the rule is indeed D3, this essentially becomes an intro prep that's more advantageous to speed, since you could theoretically play two set-aside enhancements instead of one.
Wait, how does the rule becoming D3 change how setasides work?

It doesn't, it just makes this entire rule more like intro prep than D1 does.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #28 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:42:57 PM »

I would say that D1 is closer to intro-prep than D3, as there are fewer cards being drawn.

/And we still haven't figured out how intro-prep works anyways.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #29 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:43:42 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:42:57 PM

I would say that D1 is closer to intro-prep than D3, as there are fewer cards being drawn.

/And we still haven't figured out how intro-prep works anyways.

Your mother is intro-prep.

At any rate, despite my comments, I do support D3 over D1.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #30 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:45:04 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:42:57 PM

I would say that D1 is closer to intro-prep than D3, as there are fewer cards being drawn.

/And we still haven't figured out how intro-prep works anyways.

This is really only going to combat Mayhem anyway, so why not allow a D3? Speed doesn't care about this rule.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #31 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:51:21 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 28, 2011, 05:43:42 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:42:57 PM
I would say that D1 is closer to intro-prep than D3, as there are fewer cards being drawn.

/And we still haven't figured out how intro-prep works anyways.

Your mother is intro-prep.

At any rate, despite my comments, I do support D3 over D1.

My mother still has trouble figuring out how to play Angry Birds.

I also support D3, as it makes a player think more strategically.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #32 on:** December 28, 2011, 06:04:12 PM »

She's really nice. Your whole family is.

TheHobbit13 · « **Reply #33 on:** December 28, 2011, 10:26:48 PM »

I like D3 as well.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #34 on:** January 03, 2012, 12:51:30 PM »

D3 for me

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #35 on:** January 03, 2012, 01:05:13 PM »

OK, just to clarify, we'll go with NO DOMINANTS or BATTLES CHALLENGES or RESCUE ATTEMPTS on the first turn of each player, and keep the 2nd player draw 3 rule.

megamanlan · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2012, 04:30:18 AM »

I just had a reminder of Yu-Gi-Oh! When I saw First-turn no Battle. Lol.
For those that don't know, in Yu-Gi-Oh! The player who goes first can't attack, although if it was a Multi-Player game, no one can attack the 1st Round. But u still want to go first in that game because u want to get setup before ur Opponent can.

katedid · « **Reply #37 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:09:33 PM »

In my case I think that this rule effected the game. I pulled out a good chunk of my offense off the draw and definately could have pulled off a larger lost soul count. probably 3 instead of 2 because of Falling away

Drrek · « **Reply #38 on:** January 05, 2012, 10:34:04 PM »

Personally I love the no dominates on the first turn part of the rule, but not the no battles, though the lack of battling didn't really have an effect on my first match so I'll reserve judgement until it does.

soul seeker · « **Reply #39 on:** January 06, 2012, 12:05:40 AM »

This rule sort of affected the game but mostly didn't.

How it affected the game: It did slow my Mayhem by one turn.

How it didn't affect the game: I had no early heroes and couldn't attack so I wasn't hurt by the don't do anything aggressive 1st turn.
I played Mayhem the second turn which was still devastating to my opponent
(to his credit: he got 2 heroes, a site to protect 1 LS, and an important art in play first)
Very few lost souls were pulled early in the game, so it was a slow start anyway.

That's my 1st game perspective on it.

RTSmaniac · « **Reply #40 on:** January 07, 2012, 08:54:44 AM »

Same as Soul Seeker. New Rule slowed my FTM down a turn and gave my opponent a chance to put down heros and Arts. It also gave them SoG/NJ.

I got more LS than opponent and chose them to go first knowing they couldnt attack or play FTM.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #41 on:** January 07, 2012, 12:40:55 PM »

This rule influenced my game in a couple ways. First off, because he was unable to play GoYS (or any other doms), he got hand-clogged right out of the gate, due to a large number of Doms and enhancements. He also had Mayhem, which he was unable to play, so I was able to get my hand down to a small size to keep him from being able to justifiably play it.

lp670sv · « **Reply #42 on:** January 07, 2012, 02:38:35 PM »

Yeah I had to discard to get my hand down first turn without having drawn any extra cards.

Also: To Chronic's future opponents, you have no shot. He has psychic powers. When I was trying to choose what to discard he jokingly said son of god and mayhem. I had both in my hand. No chance.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:31:50 AM »

In my first game, it just made a good opening hand even better. I like the rule, and I support it, but I caution people not to think of it in the same way as an intro-prep, which it isn't.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2012, 01:42:13 AM »

Quote from: Minister Polarius on January 08, 2012, 12:31:50 AM

In my first game, it just made a good opening hand even better. I like the rule, and I support it, but I caution people not to think of it in the same way as an intro-prep, which it isn't.

Do you mind elaborating on that a bit? It's not that I disagree, it's that I do largely view them as interchangeable right now, and I'd like to here your views on what distinguishes them from one another.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #45 on:** January 08, 2012, 03:40:50 AM »

The difference is in soul availability and card pool. The most effective way to show the difference is by means of example:

Situation - One player draws Lost Souls, the other doesn't.
-With Intro-Prep, if the player with the LS's chooses to go first, he won't be able to rescue and will have to defend. If he allows his opponent to go first, he'll be a turn behind in the LS race.
-With first-turn amnesty, if the player with the LS's chooses to go first, he's got another D3 for his opponent to draw LS's, and his own D3 to draw Hopper/Revealer.

Maybe not a huge deal, but that should be enough to prove that they're not the same. There's also the fact that the player who attacks first will have a pool of up to 11 cards in hand while the defender will have 8 (again, not a huge difference, but a difference). There are even more subtle differences, such as Denarius being able to DD2 before the first attack instead of DD1, being able to use $4 and then activate Crown of Thorns on the first attack, and many others.

tl;dr, the differences aren't massive, but they are numerous.

theselfevident · « **Reply #46 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:23:41 PM »

My game was with Polarious: I think if this is a rule then the person to go 1st should be able to draw on their 1st turn because there is no benefit to going 1st without being able to attack or play doms. It actually makes Mayhem stronger IMO, because it gives the person drawing 1st a better chance of getting Mayhem into their hand without giving you the benefits of going 1st. It hurts the guy going first without a draw, thus I disagree with this rule. Intro/prep is better IMO.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #47 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:26:11 PM »

Quote from: theselfevident on January 08, 2012, 12:23:41 PM

My game was with Polarious: I think if this is a rule then the person to go 1st should be able to draw on their 1st turn because there is no benefit to going 1st without being able to attack or play doms. It actually makes Mayhem stronger IMO, because Mayhem played right after that restriction period is almost as powerful if not more powerful. It hurts the guy going first without a draw, thus I disagree with this rule.

I disagree. Going first still gives you first shot at a lost soul, which is pretty important to a speed deck. Additionally, without being able to play Mayhem first turn, it gives a chance for the opponent to put down characters, reducing the amount of luck it would take to get anything that could block or rescue.

theselfevident · « **Reply #48 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:27:35 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on January 08, 2012, 12:26:11 PM

Quote from: theselfevident on January 08, 2012, 12:23:41 PM
My game was with Polarious: I think if this is a rule then the person to go 1st should be able to draw on their 1st turn because there is no benefit to going 1st without being able to attack or play doms. It actually makes Mayhem stronger IMO, because Mayhem played right after that restriction period is almost as powerful if not more powerful. It hurts the guy going first without a draw, thus I disagree with this rule.
I disagree. Going first still gives you first shot at a lost soul, which is pretty important to a speed deck. Additionally, without being able to play Mayhem first turn, it gives a chance for the opponent to put down characters, reducing the amount of luck it would take to get anything that could block or rescue.

intro/prep is better though, unless you allow the 1st person to draw.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #49 on:** January 08, 2012, 12:34:15 PM »

But then there's absolutely no reason to go second.

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Author Topic: Feedback on 1st turn limits (used in Jan ROOT) (Read 14544 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

TheHobbit13

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk