Author Topic: Feedback on 1st turn limits (used in Jan ROOT) (Read 14533 times)

Prof Underwood · « **on:** December 21, 2011, 11:36:47 AM »

Please post here specifically with feedback regarding how the limitation of NOT being able to make rescue attempts or play dominants on your 1st turn affected your games during the Jan ROOT

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #1 on:** December 21, 2011, 02:03:17 PM »

To clarify, are battle challenges allowed during the first turn? Can I make a battle challenge even if I'd otherwise have access to my opponent's lost souls?

Red · « **Reply #2 on:** December 21, 2011, 07:17:31 PM »

If it was doms only I'd play. But I like my first turn attacks.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #3 on:** December 21, 2011, 07:39:31 PM »

Preliminary thoughts: This is the best rule change that has been proposed so far. It has the best chance to allow a fair set up. However, I would like Battle Challenges to be allowed (even if souls are in play).

SomeKittens · « **Reply #4 on:** December 21, 2011, 07:53:43 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 21, 2011, 07:39:31 PM

Preliminary thoughts: This is the best rule change that has been proposed so far. It has the best chance to allow a fair set up. However, I would like Battle Challenges to be allowed (even if souls are in play).

YAY SPEED!

This should be interesting. I'm less posting here to share my thoughts, and more so that it'll pop up in "show new replies."

This solves the Mayhem issue, but there's very little collateral damage in deckbuilding. hmm.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #5 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:10:05 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 21, 2011, 07:53:43 PM

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 21, 2011, 07:39:31 PM
Preliminary thoughts: This is the best rule change that has been proposed so far. It has the best chance to allow a fair set up. However, I would like Battle Challenges to be allowed (even if souls are in play).
YAY SPEED!

This should be interesting. I'm less posting here to share my thoughts, and more so that it'll pop up in "show new replies."

This solves the Mayhem issue, but there's very little collateral damage in deckbuilding. hmm.

I don't think we should punish good opening hands. If I get an ET + Reach first hand, I don't see why I should have to wait a turn to BC. At least that way it comes as a cost (using it as a BC instead of an RA). I don't think there's that many gamebreaking first turn BC hero abilities, so I don't see why not.

christiangamer25 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM »

except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #7 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:24:00 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM

except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all

If I am playing a speed deck, one turn isn't going to change anything. If anything, if you drop a bunch of stuff because you are scared of Mayhem, I have an easier time beating you, because there are less variables to consider.

Red · « **Reply #8 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:32:29 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM

except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all

Speed is not the end all of the game matt. Speed is more balanced now than ever. And I would be fine if it had battle challenges.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #9 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:33:35 PM »

Quote from: Red on December 21, 2011, 08:32:29 PM

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM
except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all
Speed is not the end all of the game matt. Speed is more balanced now than ever.

The first sentence is ok, but the second sentence is just obviously false.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #10 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:34:25 PM »

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM

except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all

Except this rule isn't designed to stop speed. It's designed to stop FTM.

/Question, is the second player draw rule still in effect?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #11 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:35:44 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 21, 2011, 08:34:25 PM

Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM
except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all
Except this rule isn't designed to stop speed. It's designed to stop FTM.

/Question, is the second player draw rule still in effect?

Not sure. Unless we can BC, there is virtually never a reason to go first. Hoorah imba.

Red · « **Reply #12 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:35:59 PM »

Well if you use a super turtle... or cov of death gcow com RBD nazzy and hezzys ring...

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #13 on:** December 21, 2011, 08:46:27 PM »

We definitely need more information on this rule. It looks fun, but there's some serious deck building choices that hinge on how this is working.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:29:33 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 21, 2011, 02:03:17 PM

To clarify, are battle challenges allowed during the first turn?

Offense can not enter battle on the 1st turn. If you happen to be playing with Goliath promo, then you ARE allowed to taunt 1st turn. Probably will never happen, but since it never happens anyway, might as well make it slightly more likely

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 21, 2011, 08:35:44 PM

Unless we can BC, there is virtually never a reason to go first. Hoorah imba.

The person who goes 1st will still be the first person to get to make a rescue attempt (just on their 2nd turn).

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 21, 2011, 08:34:25 PM

Question, is the second player draw rule still in effect?

Because there is LESS of a benefit to going first, I think we'll drop it to "the 2nd player gets to draw 1 card on their 1st turn"

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2011, 01:33:11 PM »

Sounds good. Having been a supporter of the intro-prep idea for a while now, it's nice to see some variants of it being looked at.

Red · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2011, 03:19:00 PM »

Just make this no dominants on the first turn. Don't screw with the draw rules, battle phase etc... the more you screw with rules more you annoy people.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2011, 04:12:21 PM »

Quote from: Red on December 28, 2011, 03:19:00 PM

you annoy people.

Thanks Red. When I got out of bed this morning, I thought to myself, I wonder what I can do today to annoy people. After all, it is my mission in life to be annoying. Just see my recent comments insulting My Little Ponies in the chat box

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #18 on:** December 28, 2011, 04:29:47 PM »

Quote from: Prof Underwood on December 28, 2011, 04:12:21 PM

Quote from: Red on December 28, 2011, 03:19:00 PM
you annoy people.
Thanks Red. When I got out of bed this morning, I thought to myself, I wonder what I can do today to annoy people. After all, it is my mission in life to be annoying. Just see my recent comments insulting My Little Ponies in the chat box :)

I can't +1 this but I feel like I need to clarify that I definitely would if I could.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #19 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:10:59 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on December 28, 2011, 04:29:47 PM

I can't this but I feel like I need to clarify that I definitely would if I could.

Thanks

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #20 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:14:18 PM »

I think we should stick with D3 if we are going to allow the second player to draw. It keeps it simple. If it doesn't work, we could always look at the rule again with a different first turn drawing option.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #21 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:18:59 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 21, 2011, 08:35:44 PM

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 21, 2011, 08:34:25 PM
Quote from: christiangamer25 on December 21, 2011, 08:18:53 PM
except that still lets speed decks draw if we allow bc making them wait to attack at all still lets the other player have 1 more turn to setup and maybe defend so i say no attacks at all
Except this rule isn't designed to stop speed. It's designed to stop FTM.

/Question, is the second player draw rule still in effect?

Not sure. Unless we can BC, there is virtually never a reason to go first. Hoorah imba.

Alex, why make this a bigger issue than it already is?

SomeKittens · « **Reply #22 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:22:09 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 28, 2011, 05:14:18 PM

I think we should stick with D3 if we are going to allow the second player to draw. It keeps it simple. If it doesn't work, we could always look at the rule again with a different first turn drawing option.

I kinda like this. It makes it more of a challenge when you're deciding who's going first.

Prof Underwood · « **Reply #23 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:28:22 PM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on December 28, 2011, 05:14:18 PM

I think we should stick with D3 if we are going to allow the second player to draw. It keeps it simple.

It would be simpler. I'm open to doing either D1 or D3 for second player 1st turn depending on what everyone likes better.

Quote from: SomeKittens on December 28, 2011, 05:22:09 PM

I kinda like this. It makes it more of a challenge when you're deciding who's going first.

Do you mean you like the 2nd player D1 on 1st turn, or the 2nd player D3 on 1st turn?

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #24 on:** December 28, 2011, 05:34:52 PM »

With D3, going second has more of an advantage. If it's just D1, I can play speed and not really think about going second and just RA an opening hand like I currently can pretty much. D3 is safer to test I think. If it's super imbalanced (which I at first thought it might be), we could always test again (assuming we liked the first turn limit).

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Author Topic: Feedback on 1st turn limits (used in Jan ROOT) (Read 14533 times)

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy