Author Topic: Sealed Product Error in Tournament (Read 4482 times)

SEB · « **on:** June 25, 2018, 09:48:25 AM »

As Josh mentioned, we were doing a sealed event (Draft), when a player's pack contained the incorrect amount of cards (due to the extra FoM cards in a pack with a Babel)

So, here is my proposed procedure policy addition:

Sealed Product Errors during a Tournament
1.1 Illegal Card Distribution Error
If a player should open a pack containing cards that are not supposed to be in that pack (such as opening a Fall of Man pack and receiving the pack of old cards + the small pack of The Early Church), that player should immediately call for a judge/host. Upon confirmation that the booster pack was packaged in error, the host should replace the error pack with a correctly matching pack.

The player who first opened the error pack has the first option to purchase the pack for normal retail price. If they purchase the pack, it goes into their collection and NOT the event in which they opened it. If that player refuses to purchase, the tournament host may choose to sell the pack, after the tournament, in any manner they see fit or add it to their collection.

1.2 Incorrect number of Cards
1.2.1 Pack Count Error
If a booster pack contains the wrong number of cards (the pack was supposed to contain 10 and it contains 11 or it was supposed to contain 15 and it has 14, etc.), treat the same as "1.1 Illegal card distribution Error."

1.2.2 Duplication of Pack Distribution Error
If a booster pack contains multiple "mini-pack" (such as 2 Fall of Man mini-packs), the player who opened the pack should call a judge. Upon confirmation that there is an extra "mini-pack" and the correct number of "older cards", the judge will have that player use the mini-pack that contains the highest rarity ranking among the mini-packs in question. If both packs should contain cards with equal rarity ranking, the judge will randomly select a mini-pack that will be considered the "correctly distributed" mini-pack. All other mini-packs will be awarded to the player's collection and not be added to the event.

If after a "mini-pack" has been chosen, due to Duplication of Pack Distribution Error, and the pack does NOT contain the correct number of cards (there are 14 of the needed 15) treat it as "1.1 Illegal Card Distribution Error."

1.3 Damaged cards Error
If a player opens a pack and the cards are damaged, they should call for a judge. Upon investigation, if the judge feels that the damage could constitute as a "marked" card treat as "1.1 Illegal Card Distribution Error."

The Guardian · « **Reply #1 on:** June 25, 2018, 06:09:58 PM »

This was discussed among the Elders when the issue first arose with the error FoM packs, and your solution is pretty much what we decided on, we had just not formally written it up. I think you just saved us some time

However, for 1.2.2 we actually decided to follow the guidelines for what you outlined in 1.1 -- the player has the option to buy that pack and the host would replace it with another pack.

Note that as long as the correct number of the proper cards are in each pack, the pack is fine. If someone opened a Fall of Man pack that had 5 rares instead of 1 rare and 4 commons, that pack would be fine to be drafted.

SEB · « **Reply #2 on:** June 25, 2018, 09:45:26 PM »

I could see 1.2.2 fix to be that of 1.1 as an appropriate fix, but because the new booster packs are separated into the "old cards packs" and "new card mini-pack;" it seemed "faster" to choose a mini-pack and move on. I guess I was thinking of "time."

I would argue that a pack that had an inappropriate amount of rares would actually be detrimental to the integrity of the event because no other "draft-pod" would have such an advantage. That could definitely spark negative conversation about "fairness."

egilkinc · « **Reply #3 on:** June 26, 2018, 07:36:31 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on June 25, 2018, 06:09:58 PM

This was discussed among the Elders when the issue first arose with the error FoM packs,

This is most assuredly not the first time :-)
I can still hear the gasps that swept the room from our all rare or ultra-rare error Warriors packs!

Gabe · « **Reply #4 on:** June 26, 2018, 08:36:58 AM »

Is having extra Rares an advantage? Only if cards are marked rare because of their power in booster. Plenty of cards get marked rare because they aren’t as useful (or unplayable) in booster and therefore desired to show up less frequently.

SEB · « **Reply #5 on:** June 26, 2018, 09:17:59 AM »

Quote from: Gabe on June 26, 2018, 08:36:58 AM

Is having extra Rares an advantage? Only if cards are marked rare because of their power in booster. Plenty of cards get marked rare because they aren’t as useful (or unplayable) in booster and therefore desired to show up less frequently.

Well, then that pod would have a noteworthy disadvantage if receiving a lot more "unplayable"?

My proposed fixes were attempting to keep the integrity of the tournament as "fair" as possible when an error happened by attempting to restore "expected" card distribution. You and Justin would have a better understanding on distribution, but I would assume that "Rares" are distributed as such to prevent too many of those cards in a sealed environment (be it powerful cards or unplayable).

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** June 26, 2018, 09:23:59 AM »

There are plenty of commons that are either really powerful or unplayable in booster too. An error pack with all Rares isn’t really that much different. Especially when you consider it equates to 1 card difference per player out of 60+. If it makes the deck it has to be drawn and an opportunity to use it has to come up. The difference is minuscule. If I were the host I would proceed as normal.

SEB · « **Reply #7 on:** June 26, 2018, 09:39:56 AM »

So something like this?

Sealed Product Errors during a Tournament
1. Illegal Card Distribution Error
If a player should open a booster pack containing cards from the wrong expected expansion (such as opening a Fall of Man pack and receiving the pack of old cards + the small pack of The Early Church), that player should immediately call for a judge/host.

Fix: Upon confirmation that the booster pack was packaged in error, the host should replace the error pack with a correctly matching pack. The player who first opened the error pack has the first option to purchase the pack for normal retail price. If they purchase the pack, it goes into their collection and NOT the event in which they opened it. If that player refuses to purchase, the tournament host may choose to sell the pack, after the tournament, in any manner they see fit or add it to their collection.

2. Incorrect number of Cards

2.1. Pack Count Error
If a booster pack contains the wrong number of cards (the pack was supposed to contain 10 and it contains 11 or it was supposed to contain 15 and it has 14, etc.), fix the same as "1. Illegal card distribution Error."

2.2. Duplication of Pack Distribution Error
If a booster pack contains multiple "mini-packs" (such as 2 Fall of Man mini-packs), the player who opened the pack should call a judge.

Upon confirmation that there is an extra "mini-pack" fix as "1. Illegal Card Distribution Error."

3. Damaged cards Error
If a player opens a pack and the cards are damaged, they should call for a judge. Upon investigation, if the judge feels that the damage could constitute as a "marked" card treat as "1. Illegal Card Distribution Error."

SEB · « **Reply #8 on:** June 26, 2018, 09:42:20 AM »

I think one policy should be in place to ensure "Fairness." If everyone agrees that this is the one, great!

I would like to add that this could mean that no Ultra-rares of FoM will be in sealed until we get to the corrected distribution, but that's not the end of the world for sealed (and possibly arguable better lol).

The Guardian · « **Reply #9 on:** June 26, 2018, 10:32:15 AM »

At Iowa state we had 13 people drafting and each drafted 5 packs of FoM--there were no error packs. I'm guessing the issue of the extra FoM pack has been corrected.

SEB · « **Reply #10 on:** June 26, 2018, 10:46:45 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on June 26, 2018, 10:32:15 AM

At Iowa state we had 13 people drafting and each drafted 5 packs of FoM--there were no error packs. I'm guessing the issue of the extra FoM pack has been corrected.

Great to hear!

SEB · « **Reply #11 on:** June 26, 2018, 11:11:23 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on June 26, 2018, 10:32:15 AM

At Iowa state we had 13 people drafting and each drafted 5 packs of FoM--there were no error packs. I'm guessing the issue of the extra FoM pack has been corrected.

So, if that's true, that means my "first printing" boxes of FoM are worth more ;-)

The Guardian · « **Reply #12 on:** June 26, 2018, 11:16:15 AM »

One more thought for a situation like this...I would never want to see a player lose out on an UR because the pack was "messed up."

If little Johnny had just enough money to cover the entry fee for booster and he happens to pull an error pack containing an UR, I firmly believe the host should be allowed to "fix" the pack in a fair way that allows Johnny to keep the UR even if he is unable to purchase the error pack. Part of the reason many players (especially younger ones without as much disposable income) do booster draft is the opportunity to obtain new cards.

If I ever got word of a host taking an UR error pack away from a player who was unable to pay to replace it, ooo would I be mad...

Quote from: SEB on June 26, 2018, 11:11:23 AM

Quote from: The Guardian on June 26, 2018, 10:32:15 AM
At Iowa state we had 13 people drafting and each drafted 5 packs of FoM--there were no error packs. I'm guessing the issue of the extra FoM pack has been corrected.

So, if that's true, that means my "first printing" boxes of FoM are worth more ;-)

Tough to say...the very first box of FoM I opened (ordered directly from Cactus) was normal. The second box (ordered through Covenant Games a week or two after the initial release) had an error pack (extra FoM cards in the UR pack).

Crashfach2002 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 26, 2018, 11:34:30 AM »

Quote from: The Guardian on June 26, 2018, 11:16:15 AM

One more thought for a situation like this...I would never want to see a player lose out on an UR because the pack was "messed up."

If little Johnny had just enough money to cover the entry fee for booster and he happens to pull an error pack containing an UR, I firmly believe the host should be allowed to "fix" the pack in a fair way that allows Johnny to keep the UR even if he is unable to purchase the error pack. Part of the reason many players (especially younger ones without as much disposable income) do booster draft is the opportunity to obtain new cards.

If I ever got word of a host taking an UR error pack away from a player who was unable to pay to replace it, ooo would I be mad...

Quote from: SEB on June 26, 2018, 11:11:23 AM
Quote from: The Guardian on June 26, 2018, 10:32:15 AM
At Iowa state we had 13 people drafting and each drafted 5 packs of FoM--there were no error packs. I'm guessing the issue of the extra FoM pack has been corrected.

So, if that's true, that means my "first printing" boxes of FoM are worth more ;-)

Tough to say...the very first box of FoM I opened (ordered directly from Cactus) was normal. The second box (ordered through Covenant Games a week or two after the initial release) had an error pack (extra FoM cards in the UR pack).

I had this exact situation come up during the TN state tournament. We had a younger player who pulled the UR pack, and it included a 2nd pack in it. I told the player to keep the UR pack, and give me the other one, then continue the draft. After the tournament was over I handed that player the extra pack that they had opened, and they were more than happy with this solution!

The Guardian · « **Reply #14 on:** June 26, 2018, 11:39:06 AM »

And that's why you da man!

Cactus Game Design Message Boards

News:

Author Topic: Sealed Product Error in Tournament (Read 4482 times)

SEB

Sealed Product Error in Tournament

The Guardian

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

SEB

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

egilkinc

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

Gabe

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

SEB

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

Gabe

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

SEB

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

SEB

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

The Guardian

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

SEB

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

SEB

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

The Guardian

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

Crashfach2002

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament

The Guardian

Re: Sealed Product Error in Tournament