Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Conditions inserting between abilities is no longer true
1. The previous rule that some conditions could insert between abilities is no longer in effect.  Ability types are now more clearly defined in the REG, and this is a 'triggered ability' instead of a 'condition'.  It cannot insert between other abilities.  Existing rulings based on this rule are overturned accordingly.

However, 'instead' has been clarified further.  As it replaces an effect, instead of inserting between abilities, it still occurs as the ability happens (and not afterward); anything with 'instead' is not a triggered ability.

Ignore - Part 3 targets ignored characters
2. Ignore's part 3 (characters cannot enter battle) now targets the ignored characters.
This means that characters can enter battle directly from hand, deck, or discard because they were not targeted in those locations (ignore's targeting defaults to 'in play').  They can then be ignored while in battle as normal.
Characters in a territory but protected from or immune to the card on which the ignore resides (or protected from ignore itself) may enter battle, because they were protected from being targeted by that component of ignore.  However, once they are in battle, if the protection does not cover them, then they can be ignored during battle as normal.
Also, a clarification in the Default Conditions now states that characters can only ignore other characters while in the Field of Battle.  This is to clarify how The Garden Tomb works with the updated part 3, to indicate that the listed characters only ignore other characters while in battle, not while in territory.

Cannot Be Ignored means "Protected From Ignore"
3. Cannot Be Ignored is now defined as a protect ability, specifically meaning "protected from ignore abilities," as per the normal definition of a protect.
This means that gaining "cannot be ignored" (now protection) after an ignore has already targeted does not undo the ignore, and the character is still ignored.
This also means that Golgotha cannot be used to grant protection after-the-fact if the ignore happened as part of the Hero entering battle (since that is the defined start of the Battle Phase); it can still protect from further ignores proactively, just not retroactively.

Foreign Wives is now a one-time check
4. Foreign Wives, and characters with similar wording, indicate an ability that checks once, when the character enters battle.  If the condition is not true when she enters battle, her protection does not turn on (even if more cards are drawn later in battle).

Set-Aside Enhancements do not go to Set-Aside
5. When a set-aside enhancement is played, it is treated like any other enhancement, and is discarded once used or remains in battle if there is a character there of matching brigade.  It no longer goes to set-aside.
Clarifications have also been added to the REG regarding what happens if one or more characters is removed from set-aside before the duration ends.

By default, cards from a deck are top/underdecked in the same order
6. If cards are revealed or looked at from a deck and then topdecked/underdecked, by default they go in the same order.  Neither player may change the order, unless the card specifies otherwise.

You must reveal your hand if you cannot complete a mandatory action with it
7. If a card requires you to make certain actions upon your hand, and you have insufficient cards of the type required to do so, you must reveal your hand.  For example, if a card requires you to underdeck 2 good cards from hand, and you can underdeck none or 1 only, you must reveal your hand to show that you cannot complete the action required.

You may fail searches
8. If you use a search, even if it is a required search, you may always choose to 'fail' that search and not find a target, even if one exists.  If you choose to search a deck, or the search of deck is required, the deck must still be shuffled.

Harm and Negative Effect are the same, and are defined more clearly
9. Both Harm and Negative Effect refer to being targeted by a card of opposite alignment (good by evil, evil by good) or by any neutral card an opponent controls.

If the 'new' ability to be done by Instead is prevented or cannot be completed entirely, the 'original' ability remains
10. An instead ability replaces a completed action or ability with another effect.  If this new effect is prevented, or cannot otherwise be completed in its entirety, then the original effect is still applied because the other effect did not happen 'instead'.

Musician listing has changed
21.  The list of musicians was revisited, along with evidence that was put forth for various characters being included with the identifier.  Based on the Redemption definition and research, the following characters (and only these characters of those for whom a card has been printed) have been added to the list where they were previously excluded: Habakkuk and Isaiah.

All emperors are kings
22.  As emperors are 'kings over kings', any character identified as an emperor is identified as a king as well.  This was the rule previously (and was announced again at Nationals), but is now codified.

Some Greeks removed from the listings
23. The following characters have been removed from the list of Greeks: Demetrius, Epaphroditus, Euodia, Silas, Simon of Cyrene, Syntyche.

Some Syrians removed from the listings
24. The following characters have been removed from the list of Syrians: Asher, Dan, Joseph, Judah, Levi, Reuben, Simeon, Zebulun.

Not sure if this is the correct place to post this, so feel free to split it off if you'd like it somewhere else.

#10: So this reverses the previous ruling that The god of This World can instead AUtO even while prevented/negated, correct?

Correct.  We had determined at the time of the ruling that it was correct per the rules we had.  After further discussions, and a lot of the changes you see in the new REG, this was changed to the rule we have now.

If anyone has a question on a particular question, please feel free to post it here or in a new thread, whichever you prefer

If it starts a more lengthy debate or needs more of a response, the mods will split it out so that it gets the attention that it needs

So does Isaiah's call involve music? might be a stupid question, but just checking.

A couple of questions because I am not up to date on Redemption Lingo.

First Question: I’m having trouble understanding the update on ignore. Could you please provide a couple of practical example with something like: TGT and Watchful servant?

For Watchful Servant:
Condition: They have 0 cards in their deck. I attack with Watchful servant…they have an Evil Character in their hand.
The way I’m reading this is that the evil character that would normally not be able to enter battle, can now enter battle and then they just get ignored anyway?

For TGT:
They have 1 grey evil character in their territory and 1 in their hand.  I have TGT and Attack with Peter. They can now block with the grey evil character in their hand because it gives them two in play?

Second Question: how does this new rule “By default, cards from a deck are top/underdecked in the same order” affect Wandering Spirit?

Scenario: I block with Wandering Spirit banded to Messenger of Satan. I lose the battle, can I still choose to put Wandering Spirit on the bottom of my deck?

For Watchful Servant:
Condition: They have 0 cards in their deck. I attack with Watchful servant…they have an Evil Character in their hand.
The way I’m reading this is that the evil character that would normally not be able to enter battle, can now enter battle and then they just get ignored anyway?

For TGT:
They have 1 grey evil character in their territory and 1 in their hand.  I have TGT and Attack with Peter. They can now block with the grey evil character in their hand because it gives them two in play?

Both are the same scenario. Since the EC in your hand is not in play, it is not being ignored, and you can block with it. For watchful servant, once you block, the character is then in play, and is then being ignored. For TGT, there are now two evil characters with that brigade in play and it is not being ignored.

Not sure about the other question

Yeah that was what I was most bummed about, fortress of Antonia not being able to stack cards. I had most of a deck modeled after that!

Quote from: Redoubter on August 11, 2015, 07:39:07 PM

Harm and Negative Effect are the same, and are defined more clearly
9. Both Harm and Negative Effect refer to being targeted by a card of opposite alignment (good by evil, evil by good) or by any neutral card an opponent controls.

does this mean that Samson's sacrifice does not cause harm or negative effect?

To the evil stuff targeted, it is harm or negative effect.  To the hero(es) in battle, it is not harm or negative effect.

Quote from: Redoubter on August 11, 2015, 07:39:07 PM

Place targets both cards
11. A "place" ability now targets both the card to be placed and the underlying card.

Underlying card would mean, if you top decked a card it is targeting the card being placed, and the top card of deck. is that right?

Topdeck is not a Place ability, so no.