Author Topic: Babylon/The Harlot (Magician) (Read 5930 times)

h20tor · « **on:** September 14, 2017, 03:19:58 PM »

I was reading in Revelations and came across Chapter 18:23 which says:

"and the light of a lamp
will shine in you no more,
and the voice of bridegroom and bride
will be heard in you no more,
for your merchants were the great ones of the earth,
and all nations were deceived by your sorcery." (ESV)

I checked out a few other translations and all the ones I checked either said magic, spell or sorcery.

So I was wondering if Babylon/the Harlot should have Magician as an identifier??

bluefrog1288 · « **Reply #1 on:** September 14, 2017, 03:30:17 PM »

Which book is Revenlations?

h20tor · « **Reply #2 on:** September 14, 2017, 04:37:26 PM »

Quote from: bluefrog1288 on September 14, 2017, 03:30:17 PM

Which book is Revenlations?

What?

RedemptionAggie · « **Reply #3 on:** September 14, 2017, 05:26:32 PM »

I think he was trying to point out that it's Revelation, not Revelations, but messed up the spelling himself.

h20tor · « **Reply #4 on:** September 14, 2017, 10:03:42 PM »

I've heard more than one Pastor refer to it as the Book of Revelations. In the same way that Acts and Acts of the Apostles are one in the same... But either way, that's not what the thread is for.

Babylon/The Harlot - magician?!

Zerutul · « **Reply #5 on:** September 15, 2017, 12:47:21 AM »

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G5331&t=NASB Blueletterbible.com is a great place for cross reference of the greek. It does look like the greek could be interpreted as more just general deception as in idolatry related deception. Although one of the bigger uses of the greek word does convey sorcery, especially Biblical usage of the word.

Watchman · « **Reply #6 on:** September 15, 2017, 07:46:13 AM »

Quote from: h20tor on September 14, 2017, 10:03:42 PM

I've heard more than one Pastor refer to it as the Book of Revelations. In the same way that Acts and Acts of the Apostles are one in the same... But either way, that's not what the thread is for.

Babylon/The Harlot - magician?!

I know that this Revelation/Revelations got off topic but just wanted to clear it up. Regardless of what a pastor says is irrelevant if that pastor(s) simply doesn't read the title of the book: Revelation. There weren't multiple revelations, it was one big revelation. And for the record, it's actually the Revelation of (or from) Jesus Christ, as denoted in 1:1, not Revelation of John.

h20tor · « **Reply #7 on:** September 15, 2017, 09:24:57 AM »

Quote from: Watchman492 on September 15, 2017, 07:46:13 AM

And for the record, it's actually the Revelation of (or from) Jesus Christ, as denoted in 1:1, not Revelation of John.

I was also thinking this when the set name was announced. (This could go in a separate thread).

Any Elders to chime in on the Magician aspect?

Professoralstad · « **Reply #8 on:** September 15, 2017, 11:21:56 AM »

Based on the Bible verse, which does indeed say sorcery/magic/witchcraft in a variety of versions, I would say she could qualify as a magician, as much as she qualifies as a human. Since she is the symbolic representation of the city of Babylon/all wicked cities of the earth (depending on your interpretation of Revelation), but we made her human, so I don't see a good argument to exclude her. We have given the magician identifier to others based on a single verse describing a magician act (Laban and his divining from Genesis 30:27) so there is certainly precedent

I'd let another elder or two weigh in before planning all of your Harlot/magician decks, but unless anyone else strongly disagrees, I'd say she counts.

Gabe · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2017, 11:14:48 AM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on September 15, 2017, 11:21:56 AM

Based on the Bible verse, which does indeed say sorcery/magic/witchcraft in a variety of versions, I would say she could qualify as a magician, as much as she qualifies as a human. Since she is the symbolic representation of the city of Babylon/all wicked cities of the earth (depending on your interpretation of Revelation), but we made her human, so I don't see a good argument to exclude her. We have given the magician identifier to others based on a single verse describing a magician act (Laban and his divining from Genesis 30:27) so there is certainly precedent

I'd let another elder or two weigh in before planning all of your Harlot/magician decks, but unless anyone else strongly disagrees, I'd say she counts.

That also means Whore of Babylon (L) or Whore of Babylon (UL) or Babylon the Great (Wa) gain that identifier since they are the same unique character.

The Guardian · « **Reply #10 on:** September 17, 2017, 02:06:35 PM »

I'm on board.

NathanW · « **Reply #11 on:** September 17, 2017, 02:15:20 PM »

I assume it would only be a magician while it's an evil character right?

The Guardian · « **Reply #12 on:** September 17, 2017, 02:35:49 PM »

Correct--just as she is only a human as an EC.

NathanW · « **Reply #13 on:** September 17, 2017, 02:37:10 PM »

Would have been nice as a place to put magic charms

jesse · « **Reply #14 on:** September 17, 2017, 06:42:33 PM »

Cool that The Harlot gets that identifier! Also as far as "Revelation of John", that's not referring to the Book of Revelation but to all 5 Books that John wrote (John, 1 John, 2 John, 3 John, and Revelation). If you notice, there are cards from all of these Books in the set.

h20tor · « **Reply #15 on:** September 18, 2017, 09:17:24 AM »

So when does the Magician identifier become official? Next REG?

Gabe · « **Reply #16 on:** September 18, 2017, 10:51:38 AM »

Quote from: h20tor on September 18, 2017, 09:17:24 AM

So when does the Magician identifier become official? Next REG?

Yesterday. It will be published when the updated REG is released.

SEB · « **Reply #17 on:** June 04, 2018, 09:04:24 AM »

Quote from: Watchman492 on September 15, 2017, 07:46:13 AM

Quote from: h20tor on September 14, 2017, 10:03:42 PM
I've heard more than one Pastor refer to it as the Book of Revelations. In the same way that Acts and Acts of the Apostles are one in the same... But either way, that's not what the thread is for.

Babylon/The Harlot - magician?!

I know that this Revelation/Revelations got off topic but just wanted to clear it up. Regardless of what a pastor says is irrelevant if that pastor(s) simply doesn't read the title of the book: Revelation. There weren't multiple revelations, it was one big revelation. And for the record, it's actually the Revelation of (or from) Jesus Christ, as denoted in 1:1, not Revelation of John.

To add to the rabbit trail . . .
The actual title in Koine Greek is "John's Apocalypse" or "The Apocalypse of John"
John begins the work by ascribing that the book is actually an apocalypse given by Jesus Christ ("Ἀποκάλυψις Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ")

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Author Topic: Babylon/The Harlot (Magician) (Read 5930 times)

h20tor

Babylon/The Harlot (Magician)

bluefrog1288

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h20tor

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RedemptionAggie

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h20tor

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Zerutul

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Watchman

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h20tor

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Professoralstad

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Gabe

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The Guardian

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NathanW

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The Guardian

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NathanW

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jesse

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h20tor

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Gabe

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SEB

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