Cactus Game Design Message Boards

In practice, two face down piles next to each other are really easy to get mixed up.

Is the rule change being proposed for us to be able to search our decks at any time? Because it would be nice to search though it while I'm on defense too, for similar reasons as on offense. In T2 with multiple copies of cards, it can be easy to lose track of what is where. It would be nice to check to see if I have that one last copy of Belshazzar's Banquet left in my deck before I decide to block with Nebuchadnezzar, versus using a little guy for initiative.

no, only discard pile

they haven't had a problem with people cheating off being able to view their discard pile, or by being able to view multiple things at once.

That kind of begs the question, is it not a problem because players aren't abusing it or is it not a problem because no one is getting caught doing it because it's so easy to abuse? You want to talk about easy ways to cheat, if I was able to look at my discard pile while still holding my hand it would be incredibly easy to slide cards over.

We can go back and forth all day--I said from the beginning that I'm not completely opposed. I've never liked being a rules lawyer when it came to making someone decide which pile they are searching with a Music Leader-type ability before they actually search. However, I just want us to consider the cheating aspect, that is all.

I believe that the biggest differences between the deck and discard piles currently is that there are abilities that target cards on the top or bottom of a deck but there are not cards that have the same criteria for targeting cards in a discard pile. Thus, the order of cards in the discard pile has never really been significant, other than being able to see what the top card is.

Aside from malicious manipulation of cards, I believe there are no real negatives to allowing players to look through their discard pile. In fact, I know it would alleviate a lot of regret from players who have accidentally wasted a rescue attempt by using Oak to search their discard pile only to find that there was no judge, myself included.

I agree that there doesn't seem to be any major drawbacks from allowing players to search their discard piles while there are definite advantages (which have been listed). Similarly, there doesn't seem to be any drawback of restricting players from searching multiple face-up piles (such as hand and discard pile) simultaneously, but there is the definite advantage of curbing cheating as well as accidents of mixing piles, switching cards, etc. (which new players are much more prone to but can still happen to anybody). It seems wisest to put in the restriction that The Guardian is suggesting where you can only search the discard pile with your hand face-down.

There is certainly a disadvantage to the rule Guardian suggested.  It arbitrarily restricts players from doing natural actions for no real benefit with a rule that will only ever serve to unfairly rules lawyer people if it is ever enforced.

If this rule is to be changed, it should be changed to allow a player to look at cards in *any* discard pile.  Given that players are forced to discard face up, there is no reason that the discard pile should be treated as hidden information.

If this rule is to be changed, it should be changed to allow a player to look at cards in *any* discard pile.  Given that players are forced to discard face up, there is no reason that the discard pile should be treated as hidden information.

I agree with this being the case in Type-1. Type-2 is already slow enough without players thumbing through discard piles occasionally.

Quote from: jesse on May 17, 2016, 03:22:41 PM

I agree that there doesn't seem to be any major drawbacks from allowing players to search their discard piles while there are definite advantages (which have been listed). Similarly, there doesn't seem to be any drawback of restricting players from searching multiple face-up piles (such as hand and discard pile) simultaneously, but there is the definite advantage of curbing cheating as well as accidents of mixing piles, switching cards, etc. (which new players are much more prone to but can still happen to anybody). It seems wisest to put in the restriction that The Guardian is suggesting where you can only search the discard pile with your hand face-down.

There is certainly a disadvantage to the rule Guardian suggested.  It arbitrarily restricts players from doing natural actions for no real benefit with a rule that will only ever serve to unfairly rules lawyer people if it is ever enforced.

#Fact

I just saw this post. I'm for it. That being said, I think that length of time for a turn is becoming more and more a challenge to control especially in Type 2. Consider making clocks a part of game play. It seems that the reoccurring complaint, especially in competitive games and especially at the end of a game, is time.  There is probably an App that can help.

I see that this has not been responded to on this thread, but has the rule been updated or anything? I see several Elder's supporting this proposal, but I can't seem to find anything that says if it was confirmed.

Yay!