Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Cool idea, Rob. Confirming there will still be only 5 new cards per pack, and also contain filler cards?

That's awesome man I'm saddened I'm not going!

Dibs on two displays

That’s awesome, in the past, and I have always agreed with it, was a limit on packs each person can buy. Will that be a policy this year or more of a wait and see approach?

For now, I setting the limit at one display box per person (while they last).

Dibs on two displays

Dibs on your 2016 promos! 

So not even "National Winner promos" are safe from the rampant repackage bug.

I second this sentiment.  Those 2016 Nats winner promos were presented as a one-time thing.  Hence, why the secondary market prices for them has always been really high.

I never acquired any of these by trade or purchase, but if I had, I'd be pretty upset right now.  It's not good for a game to destroy the value of hard-to-find cards and upset its hardcore collectors.

I have already experienced buying a borderless TSC for $70, which at the time was an amazing deal, only to have PoC flood the market not even 1 year later with alt-border TSCs and destroy the value of my card.  Leaves a bitter taste in your mouth for sure.

Quote from: Master Q on July 26, 2019, 12:18:48 PM

So not even "National Winner promos" are safe from the rampant repackage bug.

I second this sentiment.  Those 2016 Nats winner promos were presented as a one-time thing.  Hence, why the secondary market prices for them has always been really high.

I never acquired any of these by trade or purchase, but if I had, I'd be pretty upset right now.  It's not good for a game to destroy the value of hard-to-find cards and upset its hardcore collectors.

I have already experienced buying a borderless TSC for $70, which at the time was an amazing deal, only to have PoC flood the market not even 1 year later with alt-border TSCs and destroy the value of my card.  Leaves a bitter taste in your mouth for sure.

I agree this is not good for the game!

So it's just going to be a borderless card right it's not going to have "2016 national tournament special promo"?

False. Those promos, or any of the special cards we give out were NOT presented as a “one time only” deal. I can be certain of this as the one who both came up with the original idea and announced it on LoR. In fact, it’s highly likely that we will offer some of the classic SoG/AotL art on borderless cards again some day. Rob also prints cards in sheets which can lead to extra copies. We’ve left room for him to distribute those as he sees fit.

**EDIT**

For reference I’ve linked to original announcement below. There’s no “one time only” language used.

http://landofredemption.com/?p=5238

…And yet there’s no indication that they will be anything other than 1 time special promos. Why would anyone assume the exact same versions of these cards would be available sometime down the line? In fact, the language used in these articles strongly indicates that only the winners from that year would receive these specific cards.


2016 article

Why not make the winner promo more exciting? In fact, why not make some exciting promos for everyone who makes the top 3?

If you win will you keep these to stylize your deck? Will you trade them to get cards to enhance your deck? Will you sell them to an avid collector to recoup some of your travel expenses?

2017 article

Another huge success from 2016 that will be repeated in 2017 are the special promos for the top three places in each category. To keep these promos special, there will be an all new set given out to the winners in 2017.

2018 article

Instead of only the first place finisher getting a winner promo, the past few years promos have been given to the top 3. But instead of getting the standard winner promo (aka Dragon Raid) that is given out at all other tournaments, we’ve gotten special winner promos for Nationals.

While I understand the position and frustration of those in the "exclusivity camp", I think that Gabe makes good points. Rob does have a history of doing this, and I for one (as a pretty avid Redemption collector myself) am glad, as it makes the game's utmost chase cards much more affordable and available.

I see nothing there that indicates a one time only exclusivity to those cards. I’m sorry you’ve made incorrect assumptions.

You mean all the language and reference to being awarded only to winners of those years as well as the fact that they have 2016 National Tournament Special Promo printed right on the cards doesn't give the impression of one time exclusivity? I'm sorry, but what year is this?

Rob has a history of making hard to get cards available at a later date via other means. This isn’t the least bit shocking to me. Look back to King David (p) or NJ (Dom) from years ago, or more recently the chase Doms (TSC/3W/SW). He prefers to keep the game accessible to a larger majority.

That isn't at all comparable to this. King David (p) was made a winner promo far later than when it was first released (by at least 10 years probably). Both KD and NJ were also readily available to just about anyone that wanted one for since as long as I've been playing (KD being around $30-40 in his height, and yes, I did trade for my first). This isn't a case of making cards accessible for a larger majority. The article even makes it clear that the winner promos were chosen as cards that most people already had specifically for the reason of making them 'unique' to that tournament.


Don't get the wrong idea. I'm not calling for this to not happen, and I'm not terribly upset. It's just annoying how Redemption in recent years has seem bent on devaluing its cards to the point of collectors nowadays not being able to make much of a reasonable return on their investments. I miss the days when AoCP was $40-$50 and Faithful Servant Promo went for $75+, and people didn't have to worry about those cards being 're-released'. Time and the increasing availability of AoCP devalued those cards, not re-releasing. People expect expensive cards in ccgs. It's more exciting that way. Now, it's like we have to look over our shoulder everytime a new chase card comes out nowadays to make sure it's not being repackaged, etc in the exact same aesthetic (see TSC & 3W AB). This 'cheapening' recently is more sad than anything. I would much prefer the Shipwreck route, where a hard to find card is re-released in a new look. That's both exciting and fresh.

If this was done a few years from now or was made clear from the start something like this was the plan all along, I probably would've been more receptive.

As someone who has won some of these cards, I don't really mind their value going down since I consider the ones I kept a trophy and don't intend to try and sell them even if I some day quit the game. I would be happy with this idea except that:

As someone who cares about the health of the game and wants it to do well, having unique prize promos both encourages the secondary market and drives competition to try and win said promos. No matter your opinion about collectors losing value or what promises some people feel were made or not, I think it's hard to argue that putting winner promos in boosters reduces the impact of winner promos in general. I get that making all versions of cards available to everyone is a cool idea and one I would be greatly in favor of if I didn't also believe it comes at a cost that I'm not sure is worth it.