Cactus Game Design Message Boards

1. IMO, Babel is more versatile than Wages. Many decks are running OT defenses this year, and even NT ones often run Uzzah and FW in reserve, so the site side fits into nearly every deck. Even though the fort is countered by Humble, the negation is incredible, especially with how prevalent SotS and FW are. It's an all-around solid card that can fit in nearly every deck. Don't get me wrong, Wages is great, and you can definitely stretch it into a lot of decks, but if you aren't maining one of its three colors it's just that - a stretch.

2. I'm also a bit surprised at how people are pricing the LRs, and it's why I haven't listed the (relatively low-value) duplicates I've pulled on my trade thread. I'm hopeful that they'll go up, but not terribly optimistic - we have heard that if a set rotation does happen there will be easier-to-get reprints, so they're mostly just a vanity thing. Back with the arguments people were using before the set dropped - why would I want to pay $15 for Capturing Canaan if I can get exactly the same card for $1?

Since Legacy Rares aren't "necessary" and more of a novelty, I think that's what's keeping their price lower. Personally I'm planning to buy a few more after I've had a chance to open more FoM packs.

I have no idea why Babel is outselling Wages...

I’m selling Babel for $45. Just saying. I’ve actually had more people interested in Wages than Babel. Wages is my favorite of the three and I have used it quite successfully to its potential in several games in two different decks.

Good points everyone, thanks! Personally I expect the other UR prices to go up toward Babel, and the LRs to increase as well. As other people have expressed, I also wouldn't trade a low-value LR for another card of equal "value" due to their rarity. In time, I would expect dynamic this to drive their price up.

I guess I need to play Shipwreck this year if everyone is so high on Babel

For Legacy Rare pricing, I can see why Travis kept the prices in line with the old cards they are reprints of.  LR Eve might not sell if it costs $7-$15 when you can buy a perfectly playable Eve (Di) for $1 or less.

And it goes both ways - TxP Mayhem is never going to sell at $25-$30 if you can buy the LR at $7-$15.

Me personally, I'd put a floor of at least $5 on all Legacy Rares, simply because of their rarity and unique art.

As for the UR discussion, Babel is the easiest to use and can absolutely punish certain decks.  It's easy to park Babel in Reserve when you are playing Abaddon (a popular EC these days).  Wages and FoM take more skill and specific deckbuilding, so we'll see if the next two months can uncover optimal builds with them. 

I personally am working on a unique defense that plans to utilize Wages.  It's more of a Teams defense right now, but I'll definitely give it a go on the T1 side if it is successful in Teams.

Babel would be my #2 FoM UR (after Wages). Wages is absolutely beastly, but Babel's just so simple- put it down, walk past FF and Uzzah all game (or grab something from Reserve). My guess for its popularity would also be regarding T2 multiples, as it doesn't seem to be scarce at all (out of the six FoM boxes I've seen opened, 4 had Babel). Still, perhaps Travis hasn't opened as many compared to Wages and TFoM and is simply adjusting the price to account for some sort of disparate rarity that I haven't seen.

I bought a Wages (as I would say it is necessary in anything running enough black, crimson, or orange). I don't know who's buying Babel (as I would say it's not crucial). I suppose we'll have to see how many people actually plan on using it in the coming months.

I don't really agree with people saying LRs are "more rare" than the URs. Certain specific LRs seem to be more rare, but as a whole you're always guaranteed more LRs per box than URs. If you want that specific one, it may be "more rare" than trying to get a specific UR, but I can tell you I wouldn't buy a FoM box for a chance to open a specific LR, and I wouldn't spend or trade more than $5 worth for a card that's going for far less otherwise. Of course, I'm in the camp that doesn't like the fact that LRs take the rare spot, so take that for what you will.

For me, Babel alone doesn't justify Shipwreck because I'm not really worried about Babel the times people use it just to grab an Evil Character.

Still unsure of what my 7th dom is going to be (Grapes, SW, or DoN), but I agree; I would SW Babel pretty much only as an Evil Fort. It's harmless... right?

I’ve played with Babel in one of my decks recently and I’m just not overly impressed. I understand that it can get an OT EC from Reserve but that’s not all that crucial when I have means to do this. And the Fortress portion is very conditional. I’d rather use CwD than the fortress as it’s a guaranteed blanket characters negation that’s CBN. And if you’re worried about your own characters being negated then use CBP or CBN, and you can control when to activate it and when not to.

Babel can be easily negated (particularly the fortress side), taken (Joshua or Caleb), or simply discarded or shuffled (SW; FF - so long as it’s not played as a fortress).

Wages, however, has so much versatility, recursion, and searching of powerful cards. To me it’s a no-brainer which one is better. But to each his own. If Babel works well with your deck then by all means use it.

As I pondered this more, I began to wonder if maybe we're selling Fall of Man a bit short. Considering that many people seem to think that the "chump" defense is the way to go (with ECs from a variety of brigades) would it not make sense to also use a multi-color evil battle winner? Obviously it doesn't have any CBP/CBN/CBI conditions (so used by itself, it's not hard to negate), but I could easily see it being used in conjunction with Martyr or Falling Away to defeat a two character band without giving up initiative.

I found a way to make Wages CBN...

Quote from: Watchman492 on June 13, 2018, 11:49:51 AM

I found a way to make Wages CBN...

Simon the Magician is probably the best

We have a weiner!