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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Unofficial Tournaments => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption March Madness => Topic started by: Professoralstad on April 30, 2011, 12:08:32 AM

Title: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Professoralstad on April 30, 2011, 12:08:32 AM
Vote now!
(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fredemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FGoliath%2520%28P%29.gif&hash=a7c998b27cd70f19d71405cf0c661853ff57181d) vs. (https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fredemptionreg.com%2FREG%2FLinkedDocuments%2FKing%2520Manasseh%2520%28Di%29.gif&hash=dfee86aabca97628e0b0b74f0096ae669773a121)
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Isildur on April 30, 2011, 12:31:17 AM
voting for many because he is a legal card.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 30, 2011, 01:21:07 AM
This is a really tough one.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: JSB23 on April 30, 2011, 01:51:50 AM
Goliath isn't even that great :P
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 30, 2011, 01:53:24 AM
Keeping thinking that.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on April 30, 2011, 10:34:28 AM
If you're using goliath, you aren't winning because he doesn't guarantee blocks. King manny is much more versatile and had saves to more enhancements that are op
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Chronic Apathy on April 30, 2011, 02:40:45 PM
Voting Manny because Goliath doesn't deserve to be here. Plus he hasn't even been used yet.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Daniel TS RED on April 30, 2011, 04:38:27 PM
Both are awesome. Goliath is just better than KM.  ;D
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: JSB23 on April 30, 2011, 05:25:39 PM
Both are awesome. Goliath is just better than KM.  ;D
How do you know that?
Goliath hasn't even been released yet :P
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: The Warrior on April 30, 2011, 08:50:05 PM
Don't vote manny just because Goliath isnt out yet. Its Vote for best Best EC, not Vote because you're angry goliath is in the bracket
If u are for manny vote sure but if its just against goliath dont vote manny
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: JSB23 on April 30, 2011, 11:21:26 PM
If u are for manny vote sure but if its just against goliath dont vote manny

Do you hear that?
It's the sound of the English language dying painfully.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 30, 2011, 11:39:15 PM
Can autoblock (CBN if GoJ is up) if you have two human ecs you're willing to lose: King Manasseh

And assuming they didn't band any heroes.

Quote
Is useful in the discard pile as well as in battle (if you have King Amon): King Manasseh

Goliath doesn't get stuck in the discard pile. He's easy to pull back out with outpost and Armor-bearer.

Goliath also dismantles any huge bands entirely on his own, even CBN ones.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Aelec Enitnel on April 30, 2011, 11:47:37 PM
I think Manny is the better of the two but honestly, they are like polar opposites.
Goliath takes down bands and Manny takes down singles, if played right they could work together really good.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Prof Underwood on April 30, 2011, 11:55:01 PM
Goliath is critical in a Philly defense, and that is a strong defense.  But Manny is critical in both a brown and a pale green defense, and BOTH of those are strong as well.
Natural brigade point : King Manasseh

Goliath is going to be splashed into a lot of decks as a standalone EC.  Manny is splashed into decks with Magic Charms, or with demons for him to band to, and again naturally fits into more types of decks to begin with.
Splashability point : King Manasseh

Goliath forces a player to attack with his 2nd best option, and will win a lot of battles without any support at all.  Manny can't win a battle without an artifact, or EEs, or 2 human ECs.
Raw power point : Goliath

Goliath can TAUNT.  Manny can't.
Taunt power point : Goliath

Goliath is easy to recur (unless Nazzy is around).  Manny is hard to recur, but does allow recursion of EEs with King Amon.
Recursion point:  Goliath
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: BubbleBoy on April 30, 2011, 11:56:51 PM
Play brown and PG without additional cards: King Manasseh
Can draw+play next from horses: King Manasseh
Can utilize Magic Charms AND Gates o' Jerusalem: King Manasseh
Can band to a demon OR magician (CBN if GoJ is up): King Manasseh
Draw 1 when blocking if Gates o' J is up and protected from opponent's cards in territory: King Manasseh
Can autoblock (CBN if GoJ is up) if you have two human ecs you're willing to lose: King Manasseh
Is useful in the discard pile as well as in battle (if you have King Amon): King Manasseh
To be fair, Goliath can also use horses, is easy to recur, and can autoblock in some situations without using any cards at all. Also, King Manasseh got nothing on Thaddeus, but Goliath has numbers, anti-draw, anti-banding, and FbtN to counter all purple very effectively.

Still, I voted Manasseh. If Uzzah were here, I might vote for him, but Manasseh is just so versatile and powerful.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Aelec Enitnel on April 30, 2011, 11:57:48 PM
Amen.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: SomeKittens on May 01, 2011, 12:11:25 AM
Play brown and PG without additional cards: King Manasseh
Can draw+play next from horses: King Manasseh
Can utilize Magic Charms AND Gates o' Jerusalem: King Manasseh
Can band to a demon OR magician (CBN if GoJ is up): King Manasseh
Draw 1 when blocking if Gates o' J is up and protected from opponent's cards in territory: King Manasseh
Can autoblock (CBN if GoJ is up) if you have two human ecs you're willing to lose: King Manasseh
Is useful in the discard pile as well as in battle (if you have King Amon): King Manasseh
To be fair, Goliath can also use horses, is easy to recur, and can autoblock in some situations without using any cards at all. Also, King Manasseh got nothing on Thaddeus, but Goliath has numbers, anti-draw, anti-banding, and FbtN to counter all purple very effectively.

Still, I voted Manasseh. If Uzzah were here, I might vote for him, but Manasseh is just so versatile and powerful.

With Goliath, horses become "interrupt the battle"
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Aelec Enitnel on May 01, 2011, 12:17:11 AM
ha-ha, nice, I would've so missed that and accidently played horses on him.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 01, 2011, 12:45:26 AM
With Goliath, horses become "interrupt the battle"
I have absolutely no idea what that's supposed to mean.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: SomeKittens on May 01, 2011, 12:47:47 AM
He CBN negates draw and play abilities.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 01, 2011, 05:22:56 AM
Prof, throwing taunt in there is entirely numbers fudging. The playtesters made dang sure Goliath's taunting is worthless. It's a shame the most famous taunter had to be the over-balanced guinea pig of the ability. Hopefully future taunters will have useful taunt payoffs or not negate everything that would make taunting valuable.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Prof Underwood on May 01, 2011, 06:13:02 AM
The playtesters made dang sure Goliath's taunting is worthless.
Considering that this is an entirely new ability, I'm glad that they picked something that appears to be on the weaker side.  None of us really KNOW yet how powerful the whole idea of taunting is, and I'd rather have the first one be less powerful, than turn out to be OP.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Master KChief on May 01, 2011, 06:53:15 AM
uh, taunting = battle challenges for ec's? of course we have known for a decade and a half how powerful a battle challenge is.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Gabe on May 01, 2011, 08:50:46 AM
Apparently some people haven't played with (or against) Goliath yet.  This vote shouldn't even be close. ::)
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on May 01, 2011, 09:35:18 AM
Every man's sword shuts goliath down
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Gabe on May 01, 2011, 10:20:26 AM
Every Man's Sword stops taunt (??  I don't remember the errata).  But Goliath isn't amazing because of taunt.  In fact the taunt part rarely ever works.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips on May 01, 2011, 10:24:47 AM
It stops battle challenges and a taunt is a battle challenge.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Minister Polarius on May 01, 2011, 11:16:57 AM
Apparently some people haven't played with (or against) Goliath yet.  This vote shouldn't even be close. ::)
Haha, dead-on there. Almost nobody has played with or against him.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Ironica on May 01, 2011, 12:16:06 PM
Apparently some people haven't played with (or against) Goliath yet.  This vote shouldn't even be close. ::)
Haha, dead-on there. Almost nobody has played with or against him.

Which is why I voted for Manny (don't forget the split altar hype ;) ).
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Alex_Olijar on May 01, 2011, 02:00:51 PM
Goliath is going to rock your worlds. I can't believe so many people don't see it.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Ironica on May 01, 2011, 03:18:47 PM
My main deck is a luke deck so I don't see how having to choose another inish hero would effect me. Manny, on the other hand, could stop me before I could even play
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: BubbleBoy on May 01, 2011, 06:51:36 PM
Goliath is going to rock your worlds. I can't believe so many people don't see it.
That is a possibility. The thing is, that's all it is. No one knows how powerful Goliath will be, especially since he will barely be used before the next set comes out, and that might deeply impact the game. I don't think he should even be here at all, because the Redemption community has not yet broken him in. Theoretically, he could be the most powerful character ever, but he doesn't belong in the same group as the currently available characters.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 01, 2011, 06:59:49 PM
I should be voting for Goliath because Manny beat WS, who beat KoT, who beat SWS, but Manny helped me stop Thad twice this weekend, and I really don't think Goliath can beat a guaranteed CBN autoblock.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Gabe on May 01, 2011, 08:40:44 PM
I should be voting for Goliath because Manny beat WS, who beat KoT, who beat SWS, but Manny helped me stop Thad twice this weekend, and I really don't think Goliath can beat a guaranteed CBN autoblock.

If you're talking about T2, that was James the lesser that your Manny stopped.  Not Thad... ::)
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Warrior_Monk on May 01, 2011, 08:45:24 PM
I played Gib's Trick on Manny twice against Thad. Gates of Jerusalem really was the thing that really pulled through for me.
Title: Re: The Finals: Goliath (Promo) vs. King Manasseh
Post by: Townsend on May 01, 2011, 09:54:06 PM
Goliath is going to rock your worlds. I can't believe so many people don't see it.
I agree with this completely. Goliath brings a new meaning to Standalone defenses.
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