Author Topic: The Final Four - Moses or Jacob (Read 8965 times)

Bryon · « **on:** March 25, 2011, 01:26:54 AM »

Which is the best Redemption hero?

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #1 on:** March 25, 2011, 10:16:46 AM »

Mr. Mo all the way!

STAMP · « **Reply #2 on:** March 25, 2011, 11:11:19 AM »

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #3 on:** March 25, 2011, 11:54:08 AM »

Well, it seems to me that I have a case to make for Moses (which is sad).

First, lets look at Jacobo. He can band to a silver angel.
Captain.
Yay. FBTN. Because Captain alone isn't usually strong enough...?
He can also play a genesis enhancement.
Yay. RTC?
Golgotha.
OoN?
Kir/KotW/Unknown Nation/Gates/The Darkness
Numerous as the stars?
All you did was grab Ira and make a CBN BTNB, instead of using Captain. And Cappy would have given you more numbers. Granted, it does get around 12FG...
Answered to Prayer?
You can do any of the above. Which will get shut down by most decks unless you get it up early. You have a 50/50 chance.
Covenant of Noah?
This is Jacob. Noob.
Jacob can be played in a Genesis deck, old school speed deck, and an old school FBTN deck. Not as commonly used in the FBTNB W/C, which is far more common than the awesome old schoolery.

Moses, on the other hand, is FBTN. Which is enough to win battles by itself early on, whereas Jacob needs support.
Point for Moses.
Moses can be played in any white deck (TGT, Musicians, or themeless...), any gold deck (Judges, Luke, or themeless...), old school FBTN, and can also be used in a new school FBTN. Its also a great splash into pretty much any deck.
Point for Moses.
If they can get higher than 8/8, Sammy's Sacrifice, Covenant of Moses, Godspeed, and Ehud's Dagger are all great for Moses. And if you're using musicians, you have everything in musician's chamber.
This point probably goes to Jacob though. He does have more support.
Jacob is stopped by Darius' Decree, Wasting Disease, and all of his support enhancements is stopped by sites (Kir, Golgotha, Nazzy). If they can stop Moses, they can also stop Captain, so pointless to argue there. However, usually they're only playing one thing to get around FBTN (outside of some CBP enhancements, which Ehud's Dagger will shut down).
Point for Moses.

3-1, Moses wins.

soul seeker · « **Reply #4 on:** March 25, 2011, 12:18:56 PM »

I can't let the biased Moses' kool-aid be poured and passed out without it going unchecked.
   Jacob and the strategy around him cannot be overlooked or whitewashed!
This line edited due to possible error from a newer player (me): ~~Jacob existed and dominated long before Moses was a twinkle in Jacob's eye (game related of course).~~

Many of the counters that Wraith expressed rarely exist in T1. You know what does exist in type 1? FBTN counters! Every type of Redemption card contains CBN and easily fits in Type 1 strategy: lost souls, arts, EEs, ECs...etc. Jacob is more versatile, powerful, and prevalent in T1.

What about T2 you say? Moses in a T2 deck is laughable, and that is a category where you would be allowed 5 of him! Nobody of note includes 1 of Moses! Honestly, how many Moses did you hear about at the T2-only blowout tournament. At least, Jacob made an appearance. Jacob, despite the counters is played in T2! His appearances speaks of his power.

In game strategy: Moses is mediocre and predictable at best. Jacob can come out of nowhere with a ninja attack!
   Peep this: Benjamin comes in for a rescue...drops Numerous on the unsuspecting EC....out comes Jacob: BOOM! out comes options! Do you drop answered prayer on them as well? Do you band to an angel to get around Balaam's disobedience...do you outright choose a new blocker? The option are as numerous as the stars Benjamin is gazing at.
   Jacob will come out faster than Moses everytime...50/50 nothing. You have Eve, Numerous, Answered Prayer, Angel at shur all willing to search or reveal to go get your boy!

I assert that this a no-brainer vote for all experienced players....even this n00b can see the power, versatility, and awesomeness of Jacob!

Don't drink the Kool-aid! Especially Kool-aid tainted by people who want their "brackets" to stay together. They don't care about the best hero....they care about themselves.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #5 on:** March 25, 2011, 12:27:28 PM »

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 12:18:56 PM

What about T2 you say? Moses in a T2 deck is laughable, and that is a category where you would be allowed 5 of him! Nobody of note includes 1 of Moses! Honestly, how many Moses did you hear about at the T2-only blowout tournament. At least, Jacob made an appearance. Jacob, despite the counters is played in T2! His appearances speaks of his power.

I saw more Moses than Jacobs.

Professoralstad · « **Reply #6 on:** March 25, 2011, 12:38:17 PM »

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 12:18:56 PM

Jacob existed and dominated long before Moses was a twinkle in Jacob's eye (game related of course).

Huh? Moses has been around since Warriors. Jacob's first appearance was 3? years later with the C/D decks. And that's not even the good one.

Quote

Many of the counters that Wraith expressed rarely exist in T1. You know what does exist in type 1? FBTN counters! Every type of Redemption card contains CBN and easily fits in Type 1 strategy: lost souls, arts, EEs, ECs...etc. Jacob is more versatile, powerful, and prevalent in T1.

I've probably seen Golgotha in 90% of T1 decks I've played (with and against) since Disciples was released. Obedience of Noah is nice, sure, but in addition to the counters that RW mentioned, there is Grapes of Wrath, which is also in a majority of decks. Moses is sheer power with FBTN, and everything that works against him, will work almost as often vs. Jacob. And Moses can even play Ehud's Dagger to discard any Kings that give him initiative, or any CBP enhancement that would try to stop him.

Quote

What about T2 you say? Moses in a T2 deck is laughable, and that is a category where you would be allowed 5 of him! Nobody of note includes 1 of Moses! Honestly, how many Moses did you hear about at the T2-only blowout tournament. At least, Jacob made an appearance. Jacob, despite the counters is played in T2! His appearances speaks of his power.

Ouch...RW, did that hurt you as much as it did me?

Quote

In game strategy: Moses is mediocre and predictable at best. Jacob can come out of nowhere with a ninja attack!

I drop Moses from hand on my first turn. RA. Rescue. Ninja'd!

Quote

Peep this: Benjamin comes in for a rescue...drops Numerous on the unsuspecting EC....out comes Jacob: BOOM! out comes options! Do you drop answered prayer on them as well? Do you band to an angel to get around Balaam's disobedience...do you outright choose a new blocker? The option are as numerous as the stars Benjamin is gazing at.

If you get to play on Benjamin, with CBN enhancements, and all you can do is band in a non-FBTN Hero...bummer.

Quote

Jacob will come out faster than Moses everytime...50/50 nothing. You have Eve, Numerous, Answered Prayer, Angel at shur all willing to search or reveal to go get your boy!

That may be true, however, Transfiguration can get him both from deck or discard pile. Jacob's recursion consists of Asher and Chariot, neither of which are as close to reliable as Transfig.

Quote

I assert that this a no-brainer vote for all experienced players....even this n00b can see the power, versatility, and awesomeness of Jacob!

Jacob isn't even the best Blue Hero...he shouldn't even be here...

Quote

Don't drink the Kool-aid! Especially Kool-aid tainted by people who want their "brackets" to stay together. They don't care about the best hero....they care about themselves.

I'm not drinking anything. Moses is the better Hero. Period.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #7 on:** March 25, 2011, 12:44:10 PM »

Fact. Jimmy Jones' name starts with J. Jacob starts with J. Coincidence? Less likely than you may think.

soul seeker · « **Reply #8 on:** March 25, 2011, 12:57:26 PM »

Okay, I will admit that my Redemption history is a bit fuzzy on who was printed first, but that doesn't change the poison of the Kool-aid.

Now I really see what is going on here. The MN crew are sticking together and trying to determine and force the rest of us to bow down to their opinion and will. Ironically, they have chosen Moses to subjugate us with! Do not let this travesty happen! Fight their brainwashing effect! Put them in their place! It is all coming together now with their "special" tournaments, Que, ANB fanboy club, and now the rigging of this tournament. Fight the MaN! Do not be swayed by their ploys. I know you guys are bright enough to see through their masquerade!

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:11:02 PM »

Quote from: Professoralstad on March 25, 2011, 12:38:17 PM

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
Jacob existed and dominated long before Moses was a twinkle in Jacob's eye (game related of course).

Huh? Moses has been around since Warriors. Jacob's first appearance was 3? years later with the C/D decks. And that's not even the good one.

Jacob's first printing stayed good until they released the new Jacob. But Moses was around way before him.
Quote
Many of the counters that Wraith expressed rarely exist in T1. You know what does exist in type 1? FBTN counters! Every type of Redemption card contains CBN and easily fits in Type 1 strategy: lost souls, arts, EEs, ECs...etc. Jacob is more versatile, powerful, and prevalent in T1.

I've probably seen Golgotha in 90% of T1 decks I've played (with and against) since Disciples was released. Obedience of Noah is nice, sure, but in addition to the counters that RW mentioned, there is Grapes of Wrath, which is also in a majority of decks. Moses is sheer power with FBTN, and everything that works against him, will work almost as often vs. Jacob. And Moses can even play Ehud's Dagger to discard any Kings that give him initiative, or any CBP enhancement that would try to stop him.

Quote
What about T2 you say? Moses in a T2 deck is laughable, and that is a category where you would be allowed 5 of him! Nobody of note includes 1 of Moses! Honestly, how many Moses did you hear about at the T2-only blowout tournament. At least, Jacob made an appearance. Jacob, despite the counters is played in T2! His appearances speaks of his power.

Ouch...RW, did that hurt you as much as it did me?
Considering I play Moses in my 2P and Multiplayer, and I'm one of Moses' biggest fans, it quite possilby hurt me more.

Quote
In game strategy: Moses is mediocre and predictable at best. Jacob can come out of nowhere with a ninja attack!

I drop Moses from hand on my first turn. RA. Rescue. Ninja'd!
You can also ninja them with a Transfig.

Quote
Peep this: Benjamin comes in for a rescue...drops Numerous on the unsuspecting EC....out comes Jacob: BOOM! out comes options! Do you drop answered prayer on them as well? Do you band to an angel to get around Balaam's disobedience...do you outright choose a new blocker? The option are as numerous as the stars Benjamin is gazing at.

If you get to play on Benjamin, with CBN enhancements, and all you can do is band in a non-FBTN Hero...bummer.
Jacob could then band in Captain, but it would still be a weird play.

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Jacob will come out faster than Moses everytime...50/50 nothing. You have Eve, Numerous, Answered Prayer, Angel at shur all willing to search or reveal to go get your boy!

That may be true, however, Transfiguration can get him both from deck or discard pile. Jacob's recursion consists of Asher and Chariot, neither of which are as close to reliable as Transfig.
Gold is also a ridiculously fast offense (at least in T2). As long as you search for or draw gifts, Gen Widow and MtM (and Proud Phars and Pretensions from your opponent) will get him up uber fast. Blue doesn't have speed at all.

Quote
I assert that this a no-brainer vote for all experienced players....even this n00b can see the power, versatility, and awesomeness of Jacob!

Jacob isn't even the best Blue Hero...he shouldn't even be here...
Jacob is definitely the best blue hero. Job is lame.

Quote
Don't drink the Kool-aid! Especially Kool-aid tainted by people who want their "brackets" to stay together. They don't care about the best hero....they care about themselves.

I'm not drinking anything. Moses is the better Hero. Period.
I'm drinking water. Moses could have brought me water from the rock. Moses is the better hero! Exclamation point.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #10 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:12:50 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on March 25, 2011, 12:27:28 PM

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
What about T2 you say? Moses in a T2 deck is laughable, and that is a category where you would be allowed 5 of him! Nobody of note includes 1 of Moses! Honestly, how many Moses did you hear about at the T2-only blowout tournament. At least, Jacob made an appearance. Jacob, despite the counters is played in T2! His appearances speaks of his power.
I saw more Moses than Jacobs.

Outside of Sealed? SoulSeeker knows what he's talking about when it comes to blue.

Also: no speed? Try informing the first female ever that she's useless. No wonder all Redemption players are male.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #11 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:21:42 PM »

I wasn't including sealed. I'd be even further in Moses favor then. The problem is blue isn't a very good brigade. What enhancements can he use?

-Obedience: Kir and KOTW are very common.
-RTC: Golgotha should be in 98% of t2 decks. Blue and silver don't have an easy way to stop Golgotha + CP
-Abe's Servant: Congratulations. You're a Moses that requires two cards and is stopped by DD, which 3 of the top 4 decks at the t2 only used.

Captain banding? Rescuing with just Captain does the same thing most of the time. I'd much rather add something else in instead of Jacob.

Eve and Book of Hozai are the only speedish cards blue has. And, like I said earlier, they're not really worth using beings blue is so bad.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #12 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:24:02 PM »

According to your arguments, Moses should win T2, but Jacob should win T1. There's a lot more T1 players than T2, so Jacob should win.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #13 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:24:50 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on March 25, 2011, 01:12:50 PM

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on March 25, 2011, 12:27:28 PM
Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 12:18:56 PM
What about T2 you say? Moses in a T2 deck is laughable, and that is a category where you would be allowed 5 of him! Nobody of note includes 1 of Moses! Honestly, how many Moses did you hear about at the T2-only blowout tournament. At least, Jacob made an appearance. Jacob, despite the counters is played in T2! His appearances speaks of his power.
I saw more Moses than Jacobs.
Outside of Sealed? SoulSeeker knows what he's talking about when it comes to blue.

Also: no speed? Try informing the first female ever that she's useless. No wonder all Redemption players are male.

And Minnesota players know what we're talking about when it comes to T2. I know of one player who played Jacob at the T2 only. I know of two players who played Moses in T2 Multi and one who played Moses in T2 2P at the T2 only.

Gold>Blue

Eve isn't really speed. It's good for getting characters...but characters are worthless in a C grade brigade.

Nope. I still say Moses is better than Jacob in T1. Jacob is better in T1 than he is in T2 (by miles...he's worthless in T2)

soul seeker · « **Reply #14 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:25:03 PM »

You're judging Jacob by his color? Then do this, imagine the same ability in another brigade. Break from your MN mold. Jacob is that good.

EDIT: The best Gold has is A-bomb and they don't even need Moses. Moses is not needed in his own brigade or strategy!

Fight the MaN!

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #15 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:28:15 PM »

Moses is able to play something useful due to his color. Jacob isn't. This isn't "the best hero if you eliminate the criteria that Jacob is awful in, which happens to be one of the most important criteria". This is "the best hero".

STAMP · « **Reply #16 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:28:52 PM »

MOSES led the Israelites TO the Promised Land!
Jacob led them out.

MOSES climbed a mountain to talk directly to God!
God sent angels down a ladder to Jacob.

MOSES' brother is the head of the Israelite priesthood!
Jacob's brother was a red-headed stepchild. Well...maybe not a stepchild, but he was a bully.

MOSES passed along the law you can't marry your wife's sister!
Jacob kept it in the family.

MOSES married the daughter of a priest!
Jacob married a thief.

MOSES is a priest, a prophet, a poet, a military general, a historian, a leader, and the man of God (Psalm 90 - title)!
Jacob is a swindler.

Need I go on?!?

And just so you know, there's no Kool-Aid, but we have plenty of manna and quail.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #17 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:30:55 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on March 25, 2011, 01:28:15 PM

Moses is able to play something useful due to his color. Jacob isn't. This isn't "the best hero if you eliminate the criteria that Jacob is awful in, which happens to be one of the most important criteria". This is "the best hero".

Lolwut? What awesome gold card are you imagining? Blue has 100 enhancements better than the best gold enhancment.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #18 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:32:01 PM »

Eve has the distinction of speeding up your defense as well. Gold speeds up your opponent.

Moses saw God's backside. Jacob actually fought with an Angel.

Also: Despite being the leader, Moses lost his temper, and became the first person to literally break God's law.

soul seeker · « **Reply #19 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on March 25, 2011, 01:28:15 PM

Moses is able to play something useful due to his color. Jacob isn't. This isn't "the best hero if you eliminate the criteria that Jacob is awful in, which happens to be one of the most important criteria". This is "the best hero".

This is in your opinion on colors. Case in point between Gold and Blue: which has most recently won a Nationals....oh yeah Blue!

Gold relies on conversion which demons shut down. Blue has a few cards that must be in the deck and drawn before Jacob to shut down.

Also, I can't find the thread yet, and as long as your band of merry Minnesotans don't tamper...Blue has the same amount of votes as Gold in "powerful color" category: 1 or 2 (the part I couldn't remember).

Don't sell poison berries of "what is the most powerful color" with your Kool-aid of "Best Hero."
A. they are separate issues to debate over.
B. this really comes down to usefulness of SA and versatility.

Defending a Jacob attack is a lot harder than defending a Moses attack.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #20 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:43:50 PM »

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:25:03 PM

You're judging Jacob by his color? Then do this, imagine the same ability in another brigade. Break from your MN mold. Jacob is that good.

EDIT: The best Gold has is A-bomb and they don't even need Moses. Moses is not needed in his own brigade or strategy!

Fight the MaN!

Okay...lets say Jacob was in Green...
YOUR RIGHT! HE'D GET TO PLAY CREATION OF THE WORLD OR ANB PREBLOCK!
Honestly, banding to silver is Meh at best (Simeon (warriors) is better and is in gold...he really should have made the top

, and the blue preblock has pretty much all been shut down.

The best blue has is Job and they need Jacob not to be there. Jacob is not WANTED in his own brigade.

Quote from: Red Dragon Thorn on March 25, 2011, 01:30:55 PM

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on March 25, 2011, 01:28:15 PM
Moses is able to play something useful due to his color. Jacob isn't. This isn't "the best hero if you eliminate the criteria that Jacob is awful in, which happens to be one of the most important criteria". This is "the best hero".

Lolwut? What awesome gold card are you imagining? Blue has 100 enhancements better than the best gold enhancment.

Meeting the Messiah is an AWESOME enhancement. Don't be hating. I don't even think Blue has more than 3 enhancements...(Job's Faith, Jubilee, and Abraham's Descendant)

Quote from: SomeKittens on March 25, 2011, 01:32:01 PM

Eve has the distinction of speeding up your defense as well. Gold speeds up your opponent.

Moses saw God's backside. Jacob actually fought with an Angel.

Also: Despite being the leader, Moses lost his temper, and became the first person to literally break God's law.

Gold makes it so Watchful Servant will work quicker and wrecks their territory with A-Bomb.

I think I'll take seeing God over wrestling an Angel...

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Defending a Jacob attack is a lot harder than defending a Moses attack.

Probably because Moses is better.

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Also, I can't find the thread yet, and as long as your band of merry Minnesotans don't tamper...Blue has the same amount of votes as Gold in "powerful color" category: 1 or 2 (the part I couldn't remember).

Neither should have any votes.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #21 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:44:40 PM »

In terms of straight up attack, Jacob wins. Moses has: 8/8 FBTN or.....8/8 FBTN. Jacob's got play first or banding. Now, the banding can create 15/16 FBTN. 15/16 > 8/8. Sure, Moses is easier to recur, but that's still a point in Jacob's favor. The best point you can come up with is that when your guy dies, he's easier to get back? Jacob's much harder to kill.

Finally, three letters: CBP.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #22 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:46:58 PM »

Quote from: SomeKittens on March 25, 2011, 01:44:40 PM

In terms of straight up attack, Jacob wins. Moses has: 8/8 FBTN or.....8/8 FBTN. Jacob's got play first or banding. Now, the banding can create 15/16 FBTN. 15/16 > 8/8. Sure, Moses is easier to recur, but that's still a point in Jacob's favor. The best point you can come up with is that when your guy dies, he's easier to get back? Jacob's much harder to kill.

Finally, three letters: CBP.

There aren't that many enhancements that are CBP that are useful outside of Herod's. And it'll stop Jacob + Captain faster than it'll stop Moses (Ehud's Dagger)

Moses doesn't need support. That has my vote. And Jacob is super easy to kill.

Also, as far as biblicalness goes, Moses was essentially the O.T. version of Jesus. Beat that.

Some random site:
• Both Moses and Jesus were saved from death when they were small children, while most other Israelite male children of the same age and place of birth were murdered.

• Both Moses and Jesus were "called from Egypt". Regarding Jesus' time in Egypt:

Matthew 2:13 And when they had gone, an angel of the Lord came to Joseph in a dream, saying, Get up and take the young child and his mother, and go into Egypt, and do not go from there till I give you word; for Herod will be searching for the young child to put him to death. 14 So he took the young child and his mother by night, and went into Egypt; 15 And was there till the death of Herod; so that the word of the Lord through the prophet might come true, Out of Egypt have I sent for my son. (BBE)

• Both Moses and Jesus rejected the possibility to become rulers in this age. Satan offered Jesus the rule over the kingdoms of this world (Matthew 4:8-9), but Jesus rejected that offer and chose to suffer and die for the sake of the people of Israel. Moses acted in a similar manner; he had been raised as a son in a royal family, and he could have had a lavish lifestyle, but he chose differently:

Hebrews 11:24 By faith Moses, when he became of age, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter, 25 choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God than to enjoy the passing pleasures of sin (NKJV)

• Both Moses and Jesus "mediated" between Israel and the true God who is in Heaven, and revealed the things of God to Israel.

• Both Moses and Jesus interceded for Israel, preventing the destruction of the nation. Here is an example of how the first Moses interceded:

Exodus 32:11 But Moses implored the LORD his God, and said, "O LORD, why does your wrath burn hot against your people, whom you brought out of the land of Egypt with great power and with a mighty hand? 12 Why should the Egyptians say, 'It was with evil intent that he brought them out to kill them in the mountains, and to consume them from the face of the earth'? Turn from your fierce wrath; change your mind and do not bring disaster on your people. 13 Remember Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, your servants, how you swore to them by your own self, saying to them, 'I will multiply your descendants like the stars of heaven, and all this land that I have promised I will give to your descendants, and they shall inherit it forever.'" 14 And the LORD changed his mind about the disaster that he planned to bring on his people. (NRSV)

• Both Moses and Jesus were "sent from a mountain of God", to free Israel.

Moses was sent from Mount Sinai in Midian, Arabia, to take the people of ancient Israel out of Egypt, and to lead them to Mount Sinai, and after that to an earthly Promised Land.

Jesus, the "New Moses", was sent from Heaven, to take a "spiritual Israel" (the saints) out of a "spiritual Egypt", to a heavenly mountain (the Mount Zion Hebrews 12:22, which is to say, the new Jerusalem in Heaven), and to lead them into a heavenly Promised Land. (See Hebrews 11:16. The essays eb05c.htm and ex11c.htm have more on the saints' Inheritance, Rest and Promised Land.)

• Both Moses and Jesus fasted for 40 days.

• In a way, it could be said that both Moses and Jesus were "lawgivers".

SomeKittens · « **Reply #23 on:** March 25, 2011, 01:55:53 PM »

Actually, Jesus was the OT version of Jesus.

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #24 on:** March 25, 2011, 02:38:31 PM »

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

This is in your opinion on colors.

Right. Everything is opinions. It can't be a fact that hero x is better than hero y.

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Case in point between Gold and Blue: which has most recently won a Nationals....oh yeah Blue!

And what won 10 years ago? The meta has changed greatly since then. Captain bands are easier to deal with now, and Zebulun (which was a huge part of Gabe's deck) is completely destroyed by Golgotha.

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Gold relies on conversion which demons shut down. Blue has a few cards that must be in the deck and drawn before Jacob to shut down.

Mid game you should be able to shut down both Jacob and Moses pretty easily, so that's essentially a tie. However, an early game Moses is far more likely than an early game Jacob to do damage.

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Also, I can't find the thread yet, and as long as your band of merry Minnesotans don't tamper...Blue has the same amount of votes as Gold in "powerful color" category: 1 or 2 (the part I couldn't remember).

Gold has 2 and blue has one. Even so, that doesn't mean anything really. Red has more than both and silver has the same as blue. Do you really trust that?

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Don't sell poison berries of "what is the most powerful color" with your Kool-aid of "Best Hero."
A. they are separate issues to debate over.
B. this really comes down to usefulness of SA and versatility.

Lol. Being able to do certain things (ie: play x enhancement) is part of being a hero. Faithful Servant is useful due to his brigade colors, not his SA or the fact he's male. This comes down to all aspects of a hero: SA, abilities, versatility, brigade, identifiers, etc.

Quote from: soul seeker on March 25, 2011, 01:37:36 PM

Defending a Jacob attack is a lot harder than defending a Moses attack.

You bash me for opinions then you post one? At any rate I'd disagree. Both aren't that difficult to stop by mid game, so that's a tie. And a Jake-Capt would be harder to stop early game, but a Moses would be much easier to get early game, and I honestly think It'd result in more rescues during a tournament.

News:

Poll

Which is the best Redemption hero?

Author Topic: The Final Four - Moses or Jacob (Read 8965 times)

Warrior_Monk

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Rawrlolsauce!

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Warrior_Monk

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Rawrlolsauce!