Author Topic: The Elite Eight - Isaiah or Joseph (Read 2649 times)

Bryon · « **on:** March 17, 2012, 11:56:46 PM »

Which is the better Redemption hero?

Last year, this contest was between Hur and Jacob. But those two were just beat last round by newcomers Isaiah and Joseph.

But which of these newcomers is the better hero?

Place your votes!

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #1 on:** March 17, 2012, 11:58:29 PM »

Isaiah-lite is one of the best t2 offenses. Genesis is isn't very good in t2. Isaiah wins.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #2 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:01:48 AM »

hmmm this is tough, I think that the new rules actually help both of these heroes, so I'm really unsure as to which one I should choose.

Isaiah draws pretty well.

Isaiah w/call negates ECs, souls, and sites.

Isaiah also recurs, and grants protection to Hezzy. Very Nice.

Joe can drop CotW to really get a fast offense going, not to mention the other search cards he can play. I think that tops Isaiah as far as drawing goes.

Joe has some nice battle-winners that he makes CBN.

Joe protects sons of Jacob from discard, that's very nice in a lot of situations.

Both these guys are prophets which is nice, but what turn the tide for me is that Joe is blue/green which gives him HT, Caves, and all of his Genesis stuff too. To top it off I think that Genesis decks are better than Isaiah decks. So I vote Joe.

Red Wing · « **Reply #3 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:13:17 AM »

Joseph shouldn't have beaten Jacob. I vote Isaiah.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #4 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:32:50 AM »

Joseph gets destroyed by the autoblocks.

Jmbeers · « **Reply #5 on:** March 18, 2012, 09:54:27 AM »

I'm torn about this one, I'll wait for more people to debate this one before I'll vote

theselfevident · « **Reply #6 on:** March 18, 2012, 10:46:36 AM »

Joe+HT+S.Warfare+Obby's caves = 1 soul
Joe+HT+RTC+Obby's caves= 2 souls
Joe+FoJ+Obby's caves= 3 souls
Joe+JBP+Obby's caves= 4 souls
Recursion with Abe's decendents..... yeah I think Joe wins

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #7 on:** March 18, 2012, 10:50:10 AM »

Quote from: theselfevident on March 18, 2012, 10:46:36 AM

Joe+HT+S.Warfare+Obby's caves = 1 soul
Joe+HT+RTC+Obby's caves= 2 souls
Joe+FoJ+Obby's caves= 3 souls
Joe+JBP+Obby's caves= 4 souls
Recursion with Abe's decendents..... yeah I think Joe wins

I block KoT. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block Uzzah. -1 soul.
I block Siege Army+2KHorses, discard Caves, and play FH. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block ASA/Horsies and play DoU. -1 soul.
I capture Joseph with Magic Charms.
I capture Joseph with Unholy Writ.
----------
Isaiah lives through all of that (assuming PoJ and a Seraph), though he still loses some souls.

theselfevident · « **Reply #8 on:** March 18, 2012, 10:57:12 AM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 18, 2012, 10:50:10 AM

Quote from: theselfevident on March 18, 2012, 10:46:36 AM
Joe+HT+S.Warfare+Obby's caves = 1 soul
Joe+HT+RTC+Obby's caves= 2 souls
Joe+FoJ+Obby's caves= 3 souls
Joe+JBP+Obby's caves= 4 souls
Recursion with Abe's decendents..... yeah I think Joe wins
I block KoT. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block Uzzah. -1 soul.
I block Siege Army+2KHorses, discard Caves, and play FH. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block ASA/Horsies and play DoU. -1 soul.
I capture Joseph with Magic Charms.
I capture Joseph with Unholy Writ.
----------
Isaiah lives through all of that (assuming PoJ).

you block with KoT I play JBP or aotl
I pre-block ignore your uzzah x 2
sog/nj I win

I rescue with isaiah, CM -1 soul
You have to recur, lost turn -1 soul
I'm ahead 2 souls already, yeah...

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #9 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:08:41 PM »

Quote from: theselfevident on March 18, 2012, 10:57:12 AM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 18, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: theselfevident on March 18, 2012, 10:46:36 AM
Joe+HT+S.Warfare+Obby's caves = 1 soul
Joe+HT+RTC+Obby's caves= 2 souls
Joe+FoJ+Obby's caves= 3 souls
Joe+JBP+Obby's caves= 4 souls
Recursion with Abe's decendents..... yeah I think Joe wins
I block KoT. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block Uzzah. -1 soul.
I block Siege Army+2KHorses, discard Caves, and play FH. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block ASA/Horsies and play DoU. -1 soul.
I capture Joseph with Magic Charms.
I capture Joseph with Unholy Writ.
----------
Isaiah lives through all of that (assuming PoJ).

you block with KoT I play JBP or aotl
I pre-block ignore your uzzah x 2
sog/nj I win

I rescue with isaiah, CM -1 soul
You have to recur, lost turn -1 soul
I'm ahead 2 souls already, yeah...

Brass Serpent.

Also, you're going to have to waste JBP/AotL at the same time as the preblock ignore stuff, since you do one I do the other. I can CM Jo after KoTing him, and if I throw a Gomer in the mix, AotL doesn't even win you a soul.

We could do this all day, but in the end I think Isaiah is better due to making easy work of the common blocks.

theselfevident · « **Reply #10 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:30:31 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 18, 2012, 01:08:41 PM

Quote from: theselfevident on March 18, 2012, 10:57:12 AM
Quote from: Ring Wraith on March 18, 2012, 10:50:10 AM
Quote from: theselfevident on March 18, 2012, 10:46:36 AM
Joe+HT+S.Warfare+Obby's caves = 1 soul
Joe+HT+RTC+Obby's caves= 2 souls
Joe+FoJ+Obby's caves= 3 souls
Joe+JBP+Obby's caves= 4 souls
Recursion with Abe's decendents..... yeah I think Joe wins
I block KoT. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block Uzzah. -1 soul.
I block Siege Army+2KHorses, discard Caves, and play FH. -1 soul. (plus your Jacob is dead)
I block ASA/Horsies and play DoU. -1 soul.
I capture Joseph with Magic Charms.
I capture Joseph with Unholy Writ.
----------
Isaiah lives through all of that (assuming PoJ).

you block with KoT I play JBP or aotl
I pre-block ignore your uzzah x 2
sog/nj I win

I rescue with isaiah, CM -1 soul
You have to recur, lost turn -1 soul
I'm ahead 2 souls already, yeah...
Brass Serpent.

Also, you're going to have to waste JBP/AotL at the same time as the preblock ignore stuff, since you do one I do the other. I can CM Jo after KoTing him, and if I throw a Gomer in the mix, AotL doesn't even win you a soul.

We could do this all day, but in the end I think Isaiah is better due to making easy work of the common blocks.

except CM, or haman's plot, or any other discard ability.... but 15 other people agree with me that joe is better so I guess will just have to go off that huh?

Rawrlolsauce! · « **Reply #11 on:** March 18, 2012, 01:37:39 PM »

I forgot that reality was a democracy. I vote that I'm a millionaire.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #12 on:** March 18, 2012, 02:22:27 PM »

Quote from: Rawrlolsauce! on March 18, 2012, 01:37:39 PM

I forgot that reality was a democracy. I vote that I'm a millionaire.

I vote against this.

Thus far in the tournament, I've been voting on a combination of the character and the deck. I've been primarily voting on the basis of how much of an impact a character has on the theme they're in, and if it's relatively equal, who's in the better theme. I think in this case, Isaiah is to prophets decks as Joseph is to Genesis decks, and at the end of the day, Genesis is the better theme.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #13 on:** March 18, 2012, 02:24:11 PM »

You can theorydemption all you want, but it's better to look at it in terms of direct scaling.

Isaiah has 1 tutor, which in turn has 1 tutor, who has 1 tutor himself. That's pretty good.
Joseph has 4 tutors, 2 of which have a tutor themselves. That's amazing.

Joe by himself cannot win an RA unless the opponent has no defense.
Isaiah by himself is unlikely to win an RA.

Add one to Joe and he will win an RA most of the time.
Add one to Isaiah and he will win most of the time.

Add two to Joe and he'll win nearly all the time.
Add two to Isaiah and he'll still win slightly more of the time.

Add three to Joe and he's all but bulletproof.
Add three to Isaiah and he's about the same as he was at two.

This pattern will continue. Joe is much easier to set up and scales better. I would have voted Isaiah over Moses or Asahel, but not over Joe.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #14 on:** March 18, 2012, 08:34:32 PM »

Both are pretty good heroes, but I'm voting for Isaiah. No big breakdown, but anything Joe gets from green, Isaiah gets too, plus he recurs and Call is nasty.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #15 on:** March 19, 2012, 11:25:06 AM »

Yes Joe gets stuff from green but he's blue too. Soooo when you factor in the fact that he's blue Joe should win.

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Author Topic: The Elite Eight - Isaiah or Joseph (Read 2649 times)

Bryon

The Elite Eight - Isaiah or Joseph

Rawrlolsauce!

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Wings of Music

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Red Wing

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Warrior_Monk

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Jmbeers

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theselfevident

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Warrior_Monk

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theselfevident

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Warrior_Monk

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theselfevident

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Rawrlolsauce!

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Chronic Apathy

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Minister Polarius

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SomeKittens

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Wings of Music

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