Author Topic: Round 2 - White - Salome or Daniel (Read 8528 times)

Bryon · « **on:** March 11, 2012, 10:01:44 PM »

Which is the better Redemption hero?

Salome
Daniel [Promo]

Red Wing · « **Reply #1 on:** March 11, 2012, 10:12:02 PM »

I would vote for Daniel if he hadn't have beaten Susanna.

Red Dragon Thorn · « **Reply #2 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:00:28 PM »

I don't understand how Daniel is losing this....

If Daniel is a better hero than Susanna, then he is most definitely a better hero than Salome.......

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #3 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:09:54 PM »

I don't understand how Daniel even got here. I've actually seen Salome used before.

Master KChief · « **Reply #4 on:** March 11, 2012, 11:36:29 PM »

Daniel got here because of RLK's.

Lamborghini_diablo · « **Reply #5 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:46:12 AM »

Lets try out the new feature:

[card_browser]
Daniel [Promo]
Salome
[/card_browser]

~~Blah, neither one has an image in this database. Double clicking on a card does bring up the info though.~~

yay, they got fixed.

SomeKittens · « **Reply #6 on:** March 12, 2012, 10:07:41 AM »

Salome is about as good as Suzanna. Daniel beat Suzy, so he should beat Salome as well.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #7 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM »

Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

However what about Daniel? Dan counters everything in the meta defense even Gomer in some cases with his negates (+4 impact) He can band or look at hand, both useful abilities (+3 impact) as for enhancement stuff he's white/green giving him access to lots of awesome stuff and the ability to use HT for preblock wins (+3 impact). Lastly his CBN rounds him off well. (+2 impact) Total impact for Dan 12

Search deck for TGT or N.T. cov, now that's pretty useful for a TGT deck. (+3 impact). Ignore ECs w/weapons, this is nice for getting around horsies, a helpful ability. (+2 impact). Salome is a TGT character (+4 impact), She actually has a good identifier (+ 1 impact). Total for Salome 10.

Dan finishes with a two point advantage over Salome.

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #8 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:12:00 AM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM

Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

Not really, seeing as Salome can search for TGT, use TGT, and search for The New Cov.

BubbleBoy · « **Reply #9 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:14:20 AM »

I voted for Suz over Dan and I will definitely vote for Salome over Dan.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #10 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:23:11 AM »

Quote from: Alex_Olijar on March 12, 2012, 11:12:00 AM

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

Not really, seeing as Salome can search for TGT, use TGT, and search for The New Cov.

That's important yes, I gave it a healthy 3 impact points but it still isn't enough to overcome Daniels capacity to do so much. So I don't see the justification for Salome over Dan. Where in my impact calculus would you say that I errored? Did I not factor in something or do you think I'm putting too much weight on something? From here it seems like Dan is clearly better, I'm willing to admit I'm wrong, but I need some convincing first.

Master KChief · « **Reply #11 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:34:21 AM »

Being a TGT girl is +4 impact. Being a TGT girl and tutoring for your sacky win strat is +9000. Salome wins.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #12 on:** March 12, 2012, 11:58:47 AM »

OK I'll update it with another impact for Salome, and I'll give her another + 1 for her identifiers, something I didn't factor in before, Daniel still comes out ahead though.

Red · « **Reply #13 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:13:34 PM »

I repeat. Daniel doesn't need to be here. Daniel doesn't fit in a GOOD(sorry chronic) deck. Thus he shouldn't be here.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #14 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:15:04 PM »

One thing to note is that Salome is a fair amount better than Susanna was. I think they have abilities that are comparable in scope, but being able to use TGT is huge, and does give her a huge leap over Susanna in my opinion. That said, I still voted for Daniel, though I'll vote against him if he manages this to face off with MMoJ.

Red, simply put, yes he does.

Red · « **Reply #15 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:17:23 PM »

A good deck is not a prophets deck chronic. Most green decks I must say frankly, are bad.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #16 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:19:09 PM »

And I welcome your opinion, however, I disagree.

Master KChief · « **Reply #17 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:27:24 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM

Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

However what about Daniel? Dan counters everything in the meta defense even Gomer in some cases with his negates (+4 impact) He can band or look at hand, both useful abilities (+3 impact) as for enhancement stuff he's white/green giving him access to lots of awesome stuff and the ability to use HT for preblock wins (+3 impact). Lastly his CBN rounds him off well. (+2 impact) Total impact for Dan 12

Search deck for TGT or N.T. cov, now that's pretty useful for a TGT deck. (+3 impact). Ignore ECs w/weapons, this is nice for getting around horsies, a helpful ability. (+2 impact). Salome is a TGT character (+4 impact), She actually has a good identifier (+ 1 impact). Total for Salome 10.

Dan finishes with a two point advantage over Salome.

Being serious now, here is what it should look like if we're scaling from 1 to 4:

Daniel
Anti-meta: +4
Band or Look at hand: + 1
Green/White: +0
Negate fortresses: + 1
Negate NT enhancements: + 1
Prophet: + 2
CBN: + 1.5
TOTAL: 10.5

Salome
TGT user: +4
TGT tutor: +4
NT Female: +2
NT covenant tutor: + 1
Ignore EC's holding weapons: + 1
TOTAL: 12

I think this is a much more fair evaluation.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #18 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:32:39 PM »

I'd argue that having two brigades is worth another 1.5 points.

Red Wing · « **Reply #19 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:36:41 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 12, 2012, 12:27:24 PM

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

However what about Daniel? Dan counters everything in the meta defense even Gomer in some cases with his negates (+4 impact) He can band or look at hand, both useful abilities (+3 impact) as for enhancement stuff he's white/green giving him access to lots of awesome stuff and the ability to use HT for preblock wins (+3 impact). Lastly his CBN rounds him off well. (+2 impact) Total impact for Dan 12

Search deck for TGT or N.T. cov, now that's pretty useful for a TGT deck. (+3 impact). Ignore ECs w/weapons, this is nice for getting around horsies, a helpful ability. (+2 impact). Salome is a TGT character (+4 impact), She actually has a good identifier (+ 1 impact). Total for Salome 10.

Dan finishes with a two point advantage over Salome.

Being serious now, here is what it should look like if we're scaling from 1 to 4:

Daniel
Anti-meta: +4
Band or Look at hand: + 1
Green/White: +0
Negate fortresses: + 1
Negate NT enhancements: + 1
Prophet: + 2
CBN: + 1.5
TOTAL: 10.5

Salome
TGT user: +4
TGT tutor: +4
NT Female: +2
NT covenant tutor: + 1
Ignore EC's holding weapons: + 1
TOTAL: 12

I think this is a much more fair evaluation.

I agree with MKC. Being white/green is overrated.

Master KChief · « **Reply #20 on:** March 12, 2012, 12:40:58 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on March 12, 2012, 12:32:39 PM

I'd argue that having two brigades is worth another 1.5 points.

2 brigades is useless if you're negating the side that the best enhancements are NT.

CJSports · « **Reply #21 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:41:53 PM »

What do you mean by a TGT tutor???

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #22 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:44:43 PM »

Quote from: CJSports on March 12, 2012, 03:41:53 PM

What do you mean by a TGT tutor???

Tutor=search

Wings of Music · « **Reply #23 on:** March 12, 2012, 03:54:05 PM »

Quote from: Master KChief on March 12, 2012, 12:27:24 PM

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

However what about Daniel? Dan counters everything in the meta defense even Gomer in some cases with his negates (+4 impact) He can band or look at hand, both useful abilities (+3 impact) as for enhancement stuff he's white/green giving him access to lots of awesome stuff and the ability to use HT for preblock wins (+3 impact). Lastly his CBN rounds him off well. (+2 impact) Total impact for Dan 12

Search deck for TGT or N.T. cov, now that's pretty useful for a TGT deck. (+3 impact). Ignore ECs w/weapons, this is nice for getting around horsies, a helpful ability. (+2 impact). Salome is a TGT character (+4 impact), She actually has a good identifier (+ 1 impact). Total for Salome 10.

Dan finishes with a two point advantage over Salome.

Being serious now, here is what it should look like if we're scaling from 1 to 4:

Daniel
Anti-meta: +4
Band or Look at hand:~~+ 1~~ + 1.5 (look at hand is an amazing ability, and he has some cool peeps to band to)
Green/White: +0 + 1 (C'mon 0 seriously? I know he doesn't have awesome white stuff but I still think the white/green should be factored in.)
Negate fortresses: + 1
Negate NT enhancements: + 1
Prophet: + 2
CBN: + 1.5
TOTAL: 12

Salome
TGT user: +4
TGT tutor: +4 +3 (don't think the TGT tutor is that impactful, when' I've played TGT Salome rarely gets TGT out quickly enough to be worth it.)
NT Female: +2
NT covenant tutor: + 1
Ignore EC's holding weapons: + 1
TOTAL: 12 11

I think ~~this~~ This is a much more fair evaluation.

Red Wing · « **Reply #24 on:** March 12, 2012, 04:06:45 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 03:54:05 PM

Quote from: Master KChief on March 12, 2012, 12:27:24 PM
Quote from: Wings of Music on March 12, 2012, 11:08:29 AM
Agreed, Daniel is clearly the better hero here, I'll post another impact calculus in a minute to show that.

However what about Daniel? Dan counters everything in the meta defense even Gomer in some cases with his negates (+4 impact) He can band or look at hand, both useful abilities (+3 impact) as for enhancement stuff he's white/green giving him access to lots of awesome stuff and the ability to use HT for preblock wins (+3 impact). Lastly his CBN rounds him off well. (+2 impact) Total impact for Dan 12

Search deck for TGT or N.T. cov, now that's pretty useful for a TGT deck. (+3 impact). Ignore ECs w/weapons, this is nice for getting around horsies, a helpful ability. (+2 impact). Salome is a TGT character (+4 impact), She actually has a good identifier (+ 1 impact). Total for Salome 10.

Dan finishes with a two point advantage over Salome.

Being serious now, here is what it should look like if we're scaling from 1 to 4:

Daniel
Anti-meta: +4
Band or Look at hand: ~~+ 1~~ +2 (look at hand is an amazing ability, and he has some cool peeps to band to)
Green/White: +0 + 1.5 (C'mon 0 seriously? I know he doesn't have awesome white stuff but I still think the white/green should be factored in.)
Negate fortresses: + 1
Negate NT enhancements: + 1
Prophet: + 2
CBN: + 1.5
TOTAL: 13

Salome
TGT user: +4
TGT tutor: +4 +3 (don't think the TGT tutor is that impactful, when' I've played TGT Salome rarely gets TGT out quickly enough to be worth it.)
NT Female: +2
NT covenant tutor: + 1
Ignore EC's holding weapons: + 1
TOTAL: 12 11

I think ~~this~~ This is a much more fair evaluation.

what good Daniel heroes are there to band to? Michael, ok. But who else? White/green isn't really worth that much. None of the Daniel stuff is CBN, and none of it is very good anyway. First Fruits & Words are good, but are you really going to use those with just one character (assuming your not using a Daniel based deck)?

News:

Poll

Which is the better Redemption hero?

Author Topic: Round 2 - White - Salome or Daniel (Read 8528 times)

Lamborghini_diablo

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy