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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Unofficial Tournaments => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption March Madness => Topic started by: Professoralstad on April 09, 2012, 03:59:29 PM

Title: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Professoralstad on April 09, 2012, 03:59:29 PM
Who is the better EC?

Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Red Wing on April 09, 2012, 04:05:37 PM
Manny 4 repeat!
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Wings of Music on April 09, 2012, 04:16:48 PM
How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far. 
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 09, 2012, 04:20:54 PM
How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far. 

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.redemptionconnect.com%2Fimages%2Fcards%2FTins%2520Extended%2FInvokingTerror.jpg&hash=1e612e5a5e2ab2c50fcd88f6b2fb441a3fd3c2ef)

Manny can't recur this every block.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 09, 2012, 04:24:44 PM
How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far. 

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.redemptionconnect.com%2Fimages%2Fcards%2FTins%2520Extended%2FInvokingTerror.jpg&hash=1e612e5a5e2ab2c50fcd88f6b2fb441a3fd3c2ef)

Manny can't recur this every block.

Or can he???
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Drrek on April 09, 2012, 04:25:17 PM
How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far. 

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.redemptionconnect.com%2Fimages%2Fcards%2FTins%2520Extended%2FInvokingTerror.jpg&hash=1e612e5a5e2ab2c50fcd88f6b2fb441a3fd3c2ef)

Manny can't recur this every block.


Or can he???
he can, he just needs to band to EM
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Warrior_Monk on April 09, 2012, 04:26:31 PM
How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far. 

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.redemptionconnect.com%2Fimages%2Fcards%2FTins%2520Extended%2FInvokingTerror.jpg&hash=1e612e5a5e2ab2c50fcd88f6b2fb441a3fd3c2ef)

Manny can't recur this every block.

he can, he just needs to band to EM
Or can he???
Or just draw it off of 2K Horses.
Double instaposted, BTW.

How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far.
King Manny is better by himself, but Egyptian Magicians is so much better in the big picture. I would even use him over Manny in a standalone defense because he can grab a dominant.

How on earth does EM have more votes than Manny?  He has more tricks up his sleeve by far. 

(https://www.cactusforums.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.redemptionconnect.com%2Fimages%2Fcards%2FTins%2520Extended%2FInvokingTerror.jpg&hash=1e612e5a5e2ab2c50fcd88f6b2fb441a3fd3c2ef)

Manny can't recur this every block.
Fifth. Best. Battlewinner.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Alex_Olijar on April 09, 2012, 04:31:49 PM
Manny blocks, draws 3, and CBN does:

autoblock with ability
end the battle x2
plots
dies unrighteous

or bands to a magician or Demon

fun banding chains:

Manny - WS - SoT - Gomer - KoT variant chains
Manny - WS - SWS (whoever you want) chains
Manny - WS - SoT - Gomer - PP/other autoplayer chains

I want me some Manny.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Wings of Music on April 09, 2012, 04:55:51 PM
Manny blocks, draws 3, and CBN does:

autoblock with ability
end the battle x2
plots
dies unrighteous

or bands to a magician or Demon

fun banding chains:

Manny - WS - SoT - Gomer - KoT variant chains
Manny - WS - SWS (whoever you want) chains
Manny - WS - SoT - Gomer - PP/other autoplayer chains

I want me some Manny.

This

Plus there's the fact that Manny can band to EM to get EM's benefits if he wants. 
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Chronic Apathy on April 09, 2012, 05:12:32 PM
Fifth. Best. Battlewinner.

Yes, however, being able to use it every time your opponent blocks as long as your deck isn't shuffled and Egyptian Magicians isn't discarded is a pretty big deal. As a battlewinner, it's not that good, but the recursion is pretty crazy.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 09, 2012, 06:05:17 PM
Invoking Terror, big deal. It doesn't do anything except give Sam an excuse to edict, John an excuse to Reach, and Joseph an excuse to do any of like 5 things. Manny is one of if not the best EC's in the game, certainly MUCH better and more versatile than EM.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 09, 2012, 06:10:54 PM
But if you play Invoking Terror on a Multi-color magician, it goes beneath your deck which makes it so your Opponent cannot negate it because it's out of play and under deck. I love it.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Nameless on April 09, 2012, 06:11:38 PM
Since E magicians made me look bad I vote Manny.(And because he is better)
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 09, 2012, 06:14:12 PM
But if you play Invoking Terror on a Multi-color magician, it goes beneath your deck which makes it so your Opponent cannot negate it because it's out of play and under deck. I love it.
If people are voting for EM because they think this, that explains it. Minion, it doesn't work that way. Invoking is fully negatable.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 09, 2012, 06:15:43 PM
If it's beneath your deck, how can you negate it? ???
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 09, 2012, 06:17:47 PM
It's one of the more advanced principles of Redemption. If you want to get into a discussion about it, I recommend first looking up one of the many ruling threads that have already happened or, barring that, start a new one.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Wings of Music on April 09, 2012, 06:23:47 PM
Lets break down the uses.

EM is a d1.  Manny can easily be a d3.

EM bands to an egyptian.  Manny can band to an magician or a demon.

EM is CBI.  Manny is CBN.

EM has recursion of a battle winner.  Manny can auto-block CBN. 

Conclusion,  Manny sings this:

"Anything you can do I can do better, I can do anything better than yoouuuu!"






Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minion of Jesus on April 09, 2012, 06:27:15 PM
Since when is Manny CBN?
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Wings of Music on April 09, 2012, 06:27:55 PM
Since Gates of Jerusalem. 
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Drrek on April 09, 2012, 06:59:22 PM
Invoking Terror, big deal. It doesn't do anything except give Sam an excuse to edict, John an excuse to Reach, and Joseph an excuse to do any of like 5 things. Manny is one of if not the best EC's in the game, certainly MUCH better and more versatile than EM.

I wonder what those 5 things you think Joseph can do are, since the only things I can think of are Abes servant to Ur (and I don't know that many people ever include that), Joseph Before Pharaoh, Sign of the Rainbow (which I've never seen anyone use) and Abes Kid (which actually, I'm not sure if that one works since it specifically says "in play").

Manny is definitely better though.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 09, 2012, 07:12:53 PM
Pol, are you also forgetting that Invoking is Territory Class?
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 09, 2012, 08:24:07 PM
Pol, are you also forgetting that Invoking is Territory Class?
Nope. I don't see how that matters, though.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: lightningninja on April 09, 2012, 09:09:37 PM
No way, egyptian magicians. Draws more cards and sets up better combos. Hands down. Better brigades too, he's the ultimate coward blocker.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Redoubter on April 09, 2012, 10:01:36 PM
I love how everyone describes Manny in terms of having all the cards he needs to become awesome...You won't always have the fortress, the horses, and the characters to band to or the enhancements to win a battle.  If he is your lynchpin, you will lose many games waiting for him or his support.

He's not always CBN, he's not always D3, he's not always able to band to XYZ, he's not always able to use those battle-winners.  In fact, more often than not, he won't have that complete package (if you even get him out).

I am voting for him this round, but I just want to point that out.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Master KChief on April 09, 2012, 10:19:32 PM
I love how everyone describes Manny in terms of having all the cards he needs to become awesome...You won't always have the fortress, the horses, and the characters to band to or the enhancements to win a battle.  If he is your lynchpin, you will lose many games waiting for him or his support.

He's not always CBN, he's not always D3, he's not always able to band to XYZ, he's not always able to use those battle-winners.  In fact, more often than not, he won't have that complete package (if you even get him out).

I am voting for him this round, but I just want to point that out.

I am so glad someone finally pointed this out. Mono-manny is good but certainly not great; splash Manny is far better.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 09, 2012, 11:37:22 PM
The thing about Manny is, he's like one of those engines that can burn anything. He's great if any one of like 5 things is true, and it's very possible and likely to have more than one true at the same time. With ALL of his support he's pretty much Exodia, but he's Blue Eyes the rest of the time.

Magicians needs more support than Manny to reach the same level of power, so making the argument that Manny won't have all his support at all times is a bit moot in this matchup.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Wings of Music on April 10, 2012, 01:51:55 AM
Exactly what Pol said.

If Manny doesn't have GoJ to band to Kot then chances are he has 2kH plus and end the battle enhancement.

If Manny doesn't have 2kH and and enhancement he probably has Charms.

If he doesn't have charms he probably has DoU, Plot or some other CBN/I battle winner. 

If he doesn't have battle-winners to play there are probably two humans to discard to return a hero. 

If they band then there's probably Baalam to get you an FBTN band. 

If there's no Baalam then GoJ is probably out and he can now band to KoT. 

The point is, it's a rare day when Manny has nothing for support. 
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: megamanlan on April 10, 2012, 02:03:27 AM
Manny+Jambres+Jannes+EM+Dreaming Pharaoh+Baker+Cupbearer+Wise men+Huge w/ Horses... What u thought u had a chance? Silly u...

My thoughts, why not just use them together? And then I'll ask if u want to play again after I Invoking u + D2 and play WF and I wave bye-bye to ur favorite Heroes.

Also, Invoking goes under if Manny uses it too, he's a Multi-Color Magician.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Master KChief on April 10, 2012, 03:10:48 AM
Exactly what Pol said.

If Manny doesn't have GoJ to band to Kot then chances are he has 2kH plus and end the battle enhancement.

If Manny doesn't have 2kH and and enhancement he probably has Charms.

If he doesn't have charms he probably has DoU, Plot or some other CBN/I battle winner. 

If he doesn't have battle-winners to play there are probably two humans to discard to return a hero. 

If they band then there's probably Baalam to get you an FBTN band. 

If there's no Baalam then GoJ is probably out and he can now band to KoT. 

The point is, it's a rare day when Manny has nothing for support.

And if you have all that and not the 1 card in your deck you need to play it on...oh, that's right, you have dead draws more times than not. There is a reason you don't see this defense in the meta, and that's because it's too inconsistent. It doesn't matter how awesome your combo is. If you're not tutoring the pieces out easily, then it's not consistent, and the more pieces the less consistent it becomes. Like Exodia.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 10, 2012, 12:23:16 PM
2kH and end the battle can also be utilized by the ASA and Soul Survivor (maybe Archers) in your deck just as easily.

Charms goes on Balaam and Users of Curious Arts as well as Manny.

All the mentioned battle-winners work on other members of the defense.

If you have two humans but not manny, you have blockers.

Gomer and SoT also band to Balaam for a good FbtN block.

GoJ also works on Rehoboam (and Amon if you're using him).


It's not that Manny has a bunch of stuff that just Manny can use. It's all still a cohesive defense with many, many interchangeable parts without Manny, just as Gardenciples is still powerful without TGT.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Wings of Music on April 10, 2012, 12:33:17 PM
 +1 

Even if you don't get Manny you'll still have a good defense. 
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 10, 2012, 01:11:29 PM
2kH and end the battle can also be utilized by the ASA and Soul Survivor (maybe Archers) in your deck just as easily.

Charms goes on Balaam and Users of Curious Arts as well as Manny.

All the mentioned battle-winners work on other members of the defense.

If you have two humans but not manny, you have blockers.

Gomer and SoT also band to Balaam for a good FbtN block.

GoJ also works on Rehoboam (and Amon if you're using him).


It's not that Manny has a bunch of stuff that just Manny can use. It's all still a cohesive defense with many, many interchangeable parts without Manny, just as Gardenciples is still powerful without TGT.

So your defense is Assyrians, Magicians, Kings and demons together?
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: lightningninja on April 10, 2012, 01:13:59 PM
The thing about Manny is, he's like one of those engines that can burn anything. He's great if any one of like 5 things is true, and it's very possible and likely to have more than one true at the same time. With ALL of his support he's pretty much Exodia, but he's Blue Eyes the rest of the time.

I lol'ed at this. Exodia and Blue Eyes haven't been good for like 6 years. I get your point, I just thought this was funny.  ;D
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 10, 2012, 01:42:14 PM
My manny defenses typically look like this:

GoJ
GoH

Manny
Rehoboam
ASA
Survivor
Balaam
Users
SoT
KoT
Gomer
Archers and/or Amon depending on offense size

2kH
Forgotten History
Gib Trick
Plot
DoU
Wicked Community
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Warrior_Monk on April 10, 2012, 01:54:38 PM
My manny defenses typically look like this:

GoJ
GoH

Manny
Rehoboam
ASA
Survivor
Balaam
Users
SoT
KoT
Gomer
Archers and/or Amon depending on offense size

2kH
Forgotten History
Gib Trick
Plot
DoU
Wicked Community
Wicked Community over Worshipping Demons? I don't even know what Wicked Community does...
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on April 10, 2012, 02:01:06 PM
Wicked Community is a REALLY bizarre card in that defense. You only have one EC to play it on...
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Warrior_Monk on April 10, 2012, 02:03:52 PM
Wicked Community is a REALLY bizarre card in that defense. You only have one EC to play it on...
I'm guessing he meant Wickedness of the Tenants, but I couldn't think of the card initially.
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Josh on April 10, 2012, 09:29:26 PM
Wickedness Abounds?  The Brown D4-play next?
Title: Re: Round 2: Multi: King Manasseh vs. Egyptian Magicians
Post by: Minister Polarius on April 11, 2012, 12:51:36 AM
Wickedness Abounds?  The Brown D4-play next?
Ah yes, that's the one.
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