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Not to mention Suzie doesn't deserve +2 for "soul hiding" since she shifts all souls below her purview to the top.

Fixed, now Daniel is up by three now

If Hosea is in play, Gomer can't band.

What I'm curious about is how this matchup occured so quickly?  These recent ones are the first white contests I have seen.  Were both of these heroes "middle of the pack" in voting, or did one of them get several votes and the other one hardly any?  I ask because this one is just hard to call, for me at least.

Also, and this may have been addressed elsewhere, do 2-color heroes get entered in both colors, or does someone choose a contest for them?  If they are only in one contest, like say having Daniel only competing in white, should I be voting only on his usefulness with white enhancements?

Thanks for the clarification.

I think what happened was the early voters put the bi-colored heroes in their division, but it turned out they were added by Bryon to one color or the other. I'm not sure what the seeds are, but I'm guessing it's a 1v8 or 2v7.

You can vote for the bi-colored heroes on whatever criteria makes sense to you. If you want to vote for Daniel solely on his whiteness, (racist!!!!11!!) then go for it.

Let's compare Suzy vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense and Daniel vs. Standard Meta T1 Defense:

Daniel vs. Uzzah: Daniel wins, Uzzah does nothing
Daniel vs. Sabbath Breaker: Daniel wins, SB does nothing
Daniel vs. The Amalekite's Slave: Daniel wins, TAS does nothing
Daniel vs. KoT: Daniel can play any white/green battle winner to win, usually without fear of negation, since no one uses Gold/Orange negates.
Daniel vs. Gomer: Gomer can still band to any male EC, but they won't do anything.


Suzy vs. Uzzah: Uzzah dc's an art, and gets a successful block.
Suzy vs. Sabbath Breaker: Sabbath Breaker draws 3 AND makes Suzy use a battle winner in order to get an LS.
Suzy vs. TAS: TAS captures himself generating a Soul, and can search for one of the above to get their benefits.
Suzy vs. KoT: Suzy needs two cards, FioHP+Battle Winner, or AotL, to win.
Suzy vs. Gomer: Gomer can band to any of the above, and get their benefits.

Just some food for thought.

P.S. Daniel is now winning! Go Danny go!

Yes because everyone knows that negating a special ability on a character makes you win. In the first scenario I'm guessing that you're assuming the defense has no enhancements with which to combat daniel, yet all of the sudden in the second defense has counters to the white band winners. fair comparison, this is not.

Not to mention Suzie doesn't deserve +2 for "soul hiding" since she shifts all souls below her purview to the top.

Yeah that's called luck and it happens every time you draw cards. The difference being if there are 7 LSs in my deck, and I bury one, now there's only 6 LSs that have the potential to be on top of my deck. before there was a potential for all 7. now I only got a C in calc but I think you guys are missing the point.

Yes because everyone knows that negating a special ability on a character makes you win. In the first scenario I'm guessing that you're assuming the defense has no enhancements with which to combat daniel, yet all of the sudden in the second defense has counters to the white band winners. fair comparison, this is not.

He was specifically talking about a standard meta defense. Susie is vulnerable to every single evil character in a meta defense, but does have an advantage against Plot. Since A Slave and Gomer don't win battles, but have abilities that help them both a lot, I'll give them each a half point, which would translate to Susie winning four battles and Daniel losing one. Additionally, Daniel can both look at the opponent's hand, and use Hidden Treasures, so he's much more well-prepared at the beginning of a battle than Susie is.

Yeah that's called luck and it happens every time you draw cards. The difference being if there are 7 LSs in my deck, and I bury one, now there's only 6 LSs that have the potential to be on top of my deck. before there was a potential for all 7. now I only got a C in calc but I think you guys are missing the point.

Exactly, that's nothing but luck, so you can use a factor that's determined by nothing but luck as a benefit for Susie.

It's complete luck of the draw; if you want to cite a feigned sense of "control" as making Susie better, that's fine, but if you don't draw any souls with her, then every other soul in the deck is that much closer to being drawn.

Daniel  stops one of the best ecs in the game and can play HiR preblock so he gets my vote.

Daniel  stops one of the best ecs in the game and can play HiR preblock so he gets my vote.

To be fair, he does negate HiR, but if you use The Sabbath...

I can MAYBE see him being weaker in Type 2 than Suzanna just because you can only have one of him.  But short of that, he's just SO useful.

You can have two of multi color cards in T2 now.

I'm not sure which hero is better (haven't played with or against Daniel yet) but I think people are underestimating Susanna. 

Her CBN/protected from ability to grab a card of choice can be huge.  However be able to put souls on the bottom of deck can be even better.  I've had multiple games where she singlehandedly won me the game because she put 3 of my souls on the bottom of deck, even allowing a comeback from 4-0/4-1 to win.  I haven't seen any other hero do this.  I have multiple times had the # of females be above 10.  The deck manipulation with that is amazing. 

I garauntee that she makes a difference (on average) of not having souls come out.  I don't know how to express it in a mathematical formula but the people who say it is just luck are wrong (even if x is lower like 3-5).  Think of it this way: 

On every turn you draw 3 cards and if there is a lost soul it comes into play.  With Susie, every other "draw" you get to put the souls on the bottom of deck.  I'll take the odds of drawing a soul reduced by 50%.  If you hit 1 or 2 souls this can often be enough to give you the game. 

Quote from: jmhartz on March 07, 2012, 12:48:31 PM

I take it that neither of you played against Matt's deck last year?  Susie + FioHP + Magnificat/He Is Risen = virtually guaranteed soul. 

Virtually, but yeah, that was really annoying.

I voted for Susie because she wins games by grabbing SoG/NJ. She IS TGT's speed, and can grab just what you need to shut down your opponent (and is more reliable than people would like to believe). Also, Daniel isn't a good white hero, so by no means should he win in the white category. Daniel is a pretty good green hero, but not white.

This is a good point.  Daniel doesn't splash well, in my opinion, into white.  I guess I see why they needed him to be white (for Daniel decks), but most of the best white cards are NT (IMO).  Sadly I confess that I was voting for him as a green/prophet hero, because I didn't see a chance to vote for him among the green guys and gals.

But it didn't ask who is the better white hero, only who is the better hero.

IMO, the contest is for the best Hero, so that at every level, the brigade shouldn't matter, just who is the better hero. If this were the finals, then who would you vote for? If you believe that Daniel is the better Hero in general, even though Susanna is obviously a better Hero for a White offense, you should vote Daniel. Daniel shouldn't be punished just because he wasn't put in the Green division.