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Go Daniel!

Are the people voting even reading Daniel's ability! Yes Susannah can hide souls but Daniel can use HT, band, and negates the opponent's defense.  Not to mention negating their forts, and if the happen to be using an N.T. defense, their enhancements too! 

Daniel is BY FAR the better Hero. Susanna is used in a better decktype, so people will vote for her regardless =/

Daniel is BY FAR the better Hero. Susanna is used in a better decktype, so people will vote for her regardless =/

my lost souls on the bottom of my deck and instant inish disagree.

Quote from: Wings of Music on March 07, 2012, 10:35:16 AM

Are the people voting even reading Daniel's ability! Yes Susannah can hide souls but Daniel can use HT, band, and negates the opponent's defense.  Not to mention negating their forts, and if the happen to be using an N.T. defense, their enhancements too!

Daniel is a great hero except for the fact that for him to work you have to play a Daniel deck, which means you lose.

That is just plain incorrect in all points.

I'm pretty sure that Susanna will rescue more LSs than Daniel will.

Only because she fits in a popular deck, so people will attack with her. However, I posit that Daniel's average (LS's rescued per rescue attempt) will be significantly higher. People attack with Susanna to seek for a card, but she'll lose more RA's than she wins. TGT players win LS's with the Garden Girls/John. Susanna is just a setup Hero.

Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of and susanna gives you the perfect opportunity to play.

Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of and susanna gives you the perfect opportunity to play.

Except for Faith in Our High Priest+Battle Winner, what CBN battle winners does white have? 'He is Risen,' nope. Magnificat, nope. Transfig could be a battle winner I guess…

TGT isn't top tier this year either, and I actually there's precedent to say that Teal/Green is better than TGT, especially since its faster.

The fact that Genesis, Gardensciples, and Sam decks are generally agreed upon (at least from what I've seen) to be better than TGT. TGT is high on the tier list, sure, but not top tier.

Last time I checked 90% of all battles now-a-days are won with CBN battle winners, which white has plenty of and susanna gives you the perfect opportunity to play.

Umm....such as?

Except for Faith in Our High Priest+Battle Winner, what CBN battle winners does white have? 'He is Risen,' nope. Magnificat, nope. Transfig could be a battle winner I guess…

I take it that neither of you played against Matt's deck last year?  Susie + FioHP + Magnificat/He Is Risen = virtually guaranteed soul.  Gabriel gets brought in with HiR to recur Consider the Lilies to recur FioHP and do it all again.  And you will never get inish to counter it.  All 1/1 ECs will get AotL/Grapes and can't be saved by HT (which must be drawn by the opponent to be used).  Susie is also saved by Herod's Temple.  A CBN HiR allows for walkins with the TGT ladies.  And his deck was so fast that counters like Unholy Writ usually don't get drawn by the opponent in time, or they get DoN'd.  And since she's got access to all lost souls, you can basically troll your deck with her, grabbing Doms and other important cards while making rescue attempts.

*insert topic change*

I've got to say, to those who think Susanna is good because she buries lost souls - have you accounted for the souls she brings closer to the top of the deck as well?  Frankly, I don't see how she decreases the odds that you won't draw a soul on your next draw, which is the one that she immediately affects.  Anyone care to share the calculations behind their statistics?

most Gardenciples decks I've seen have Suzzy splashed it, but I think when you've one a couple nats in a row you should actually have to LOSE a nats before you can be declared no longer top tier.

Edit: also let me see if I understand this, any deck that contains Samuel is a Sam deck, but gardenciples and TGT are mutually exclusive?

Sam decks are the blanket term for a spread offense, because most decks with a spread offense can splash Sam in for some extra drawing. Gardensciples and TGT are, at least in my opinion, different decks, because of how different a traditional TGT deck (even WaterTomb) is from a Gardensciples deck. If you want to disagree, that's fine, that's just what most people I've talked to have agreed on (which is admittedly a relatively small amount of people). I'm pretty sure that most people would agree that straight TGT isn't good enough to compete with the three deck archetypes I listed.

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on March 07, 2012, 12:16:58 PM

The fact that Genesis, Gardensciples, and Sam decks are generally agreed upon (at least from what I've seen) to be better

I'm including Susanna in the Gardensciples decks that are in the top tier.  Which of those 3 decks is Daniel in?

None of them, and in general, I tend to vote towards the deck that the hero is in rather than the hero itself, but Daniel is so good that it's hard for me not to vote for him. I actually got the idea to try splashing him into a TGT/NT Prophets deck, which I'm working on now.