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Redemption® Collectible Trading Card Game HQ => Unofficial Tournaments => Playgroup and Tournament Central => Redemption March Madness => Topic started by: Bryon on March 04, 2012, 10:30:08 AM

Title: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Bryon on March 04, 2012, 10:30:08 AM
Which is the better banding hero?

Simeon  (Di)
Armorbearer  (Wa)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Red Wing on March 04, 2012, 10:36:21 AM
Simeon+Anna can walk in for a lot of souls especially when paired with Hidden Treasures. But Armorbearer helps Sam, so…
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: cardsofmanykinds on March 04, 2012, 02:21:50 PM
i expect you mean the new simeon, right?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Red Wing on March 04, 2012, 02:29:01 PM
i expect you mean the new simeon, right?
Yes. Simeon  (Di)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 04, 2012, 02:39:14 PM
Armorbearer bands to better characters
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Noah on March 04, 2012, 04:15:40 PM
But Simeon is protected from discard and it cannot be negated against evil cards.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 04, 2012, 04:19:10 PM
But Simeon is protected from discard and it cannot be negated against evil cards.

But Armorbearer bands to cards I actually want to use and isn't stuck in a waste of an NT prophet offense.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Lamborghini_diablo on March 04, 2012, 05:18:12 PM
Armorbearer helps sam. Therefore, Armorbearer is better.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: SomeKittens on March 04, 2012, 11:41:40 PM
Remember last year, when we actually considered cards on their own merits?

Simeon's a much better hero when toe-to-toe against Armorbearer.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Prof Underwood on March 05, 2012, 12:13:18 AM
Remember last year, when we actually considered cards on their own merits?
I think that this year, Prophets in particular are not getting judged on their own merits because most people find prophets decks (other than maybe Isaiah) to be uncompetitive at the top levels.  Therefore their cards are looked at more through the lens of Sam decks.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 05, 2012, 12:16:52 AM
Remember last year, when we actually considered cards on their own merits?

Simeon's a much better hero when toe-to-toe against Armorbearer.

Would you like me to list the cards Armorbearer can band to and the cards Sim can band to in a blind test and you can tell me which list has better heroes?

Didn't think so.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Minister Polarius on March 05, 2012, 01:09:55 AM
Simeon is a much better Hero, but people will probably vote for Armorbearer because Sam is so much better than everything else he bleeds over into all other races.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 05, 2012, 01:23:59 AM
Simeon is a much better Hero, but people will probably vote for Armorbearer because Sam is so much better than everything else he bleeds over into all other races.

Best hero isn't in a continuum. NT prophets stink. Sam doesn't. Armorbearer is better.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: TheHobbit13 on March 05, 2012, 08:55:50 AM
Best hero isn't in a continuum. NT prophets stink. Sam doesn't. Armorbearer is better.

Not if you play them right. NT prophets/TGT is pretty beastly.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: SomeKittens on March 05, 2012, 09:12:02 AM
NT prophets aren't top tier, but they're a lot better than you give them credit for.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 05, 2012, 10:40:23 AM
Yes, but Armorbearer fits into S tier decks, Simeon doesn't. Case closed.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 05, 2012, 10:42:45 AM
What deck is S Tier?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 05, 2012, 10:45:15 AM
Sam decks, and a lot of people would argue that Armorbearer is a staple in every Sam deck regardless of the direction the builder has gone in.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 05, 2012, 11:02:07 AM
Tier S (0) decks are decks that win even with everyone teching against it. Basically, a Tier 0 beats all its own anti-cards meaning it is just that broken. I can see TGT being Tier 0 for awhile, but are Sams that broken?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: TheHobbit13 on March 05, 2012, 11:07:22 AM
Yes.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 05, 2012, 11:08:00 AM
Tier S (0) decks are decks that win even with everyone teching against it. Basically, a Tier 0 beats all its own anti-cards meaning it is just that broken. I can see TGT being Tier 0 for awhile, but are Sams that broken?

Usually, yes. Sam is so fast that unless a bunch of people opt to stuff their deck full of anti-meta artifacts (which tends to be a waste of space), Sam is going to get set up before most turtles or anti-metas have enough stuff to stop it. I've been playing Sam for a couple months now, and I think I've only had two losses to turtle decks.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: LordZardeck on March 05, 2012, 10:55:32 PM
Simeon+Anna can walk in for a lot of souls especially when paired with Hidden Treasures. But Armorbearer helps Sam, so…

How so? Other than you can't do anything to him, you could still beat him by numbers.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Red Wing on March 05, 2012, 11:06:52 PM
Simeon+Anna can walk in for a lot of souls especially when paired with Hidden Treasures. But Armorbearer helps Sam, so…

How so? Other than you can't do anything to him, you could still beat him by numbers.

Protection from Plot, CM, Writ, and Charms will likely get you souls. But play Two Bears or Spiritual Warfare off HT, your opponent probably won't even be able to block. There's also Baptism of Jesus.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: LordZardeck on March 05, 2012, 11:08:30 PM
Simeon+Anna can walk in for a lot of souls especially when paired with Hidden Treasures. But Armorbearer helps Sam, so…

How so? Other than you can't do anything to him, you could still beat him by numbers.

Protection from Plot, CM, Writ, and Charms will likely get you souls. But play Two Bears or Spiritual Warfare off HT, your opponent probably won't even be able to block. There's also Baptism of Jesus.

0.o i'm inclined to believe that's pure awesomeness.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Red Wing on March 05, 2012, 11:10:39 PM
Simeon+Anna can walk in for a lot of souls especially when paired with Hidden Treasures. But Armorbearer helps Sam, so…

How so? Other than you can't do anything to him, you could still beat him by numbers.

Protection from Plot, CM, Writ, and Charms will likely get you souls. But play Two Bears or Spiritual Warfare off HT, your opponent probably won't even be able to block. There's also Baptism of Jesus.

0.o i'm inclined to believe that's pure awesomeness.
It is. I've experienced it firsthand. From the wrong side of the table unfortunately…
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Red on March 05, 2012, 11:11:23 PM
HT's only work if the green prophet is lone. Just throwing that out there. But amorbearer is still better.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Red Wing on March 05, 2012, 11:14:10 PM
HT's only work if the green prophet is lone.
Yeah, but just Simeon+Anna and maybe an enhancement or two should be enough against meta defenses.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: TheHobbit13 on March 05, 2012, 11:19:15 PM
It's time to make some library accounts boys... Armorbearer has got to go.  ;)
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: LordZardeck on March 05, 2012, 11:39:36 PM
HT's only work if the green prophet is lone.
Yeah, but just Simeon+Anna and maybe an enhancement or two should be enough against meta defenses.

I keep seeing this but have no idea what it is. What IS meta?
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 05, 2012, 11:48:36 PM
HT's only work if the green prophet is lone.
Yeah, but just Simeon+Anna and maybe an enhancement or two should be enough against meta defenses.

I keep seeing this but have no idea what it is. What IS meta?
Unholy Writ, Uzzah, Gomer, KoT, Sabbath Breaker, Ammy Slave, Haman's Plot. And all the dominants.

Sorry, didn't understand the question initially. That would be a meta defense.

Meta game is basically what's popular. Everybody seems to be playing that defense, therefore, it's meta. Meta offenses include Samuel, Gardenciples, and Genesis.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 06, 2012, 12:12:47 AM
And anti-meta are those who oppose the meta *cough* Ring Wraith *cough cough*.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 06, 2012, 12:13:34 AM
And anti-meta are those who oppose the meta *cough* Ring Wraith *cough cough*.

Anti-meta today is basically Rain becomes dust.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 06, 2012, 12:17:12 AM
And anti-meta are those who oppose the meta *cough* Ring Wraith *cough cough*.
This year I've spent the most deck building time building anti-meta decks. I have yet to try one out.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 06, 2012, 12:17:51 AM
Anti-meta is the plethora of counters Cactus creates in an attempt to balance the brokensauce of the last expansion. Usually very unsuccessfully.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Captain Kirk on March 07, 2012, 06:49:56 PM
A tie? Wow - how do you determine a tie breaker?

Kirk
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Professoralstad on March 07, 2012, 06:52:14 PM
A tie? Wow - how do you determine a tie breaker?

Kirk

Usually Bryon doesn't vote until the last possible time, so he more or less decides tie breakers. At least that's how it worked last year.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Bryon on March 07, 2012, 11:36:16 PM
Yeah, Kurt and I will discuss/vote.  If we don't agree, we'll flip a coin.  It only happened once last year, iirc.

This is a tough one.  These guys were seeded #4 and #5, and they had the exact same number of nominations. 

Simeon's protection from CM is really nice, especially in MP, and the added capture protection from Caves or Anna is nice, too.
Although, Armorbearer has SOOOOO many (and better) heroes to band to.

I'm leaning toward Armorbearer for this year.  As the number of N.T. prophets grows, Simeon will get better.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: SomeKittens on March 08, 2012, 12:19:38 AM
Frankly, I think Simeon's the better hero.  Armorbearer can band to lots of neat heroes, but if we used that as a qualification, Gathering would win every time.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Alex_Olijar on March 08, 2012, 12:20:10 AM
Frankly, I think Simeon's the better hero.  Armorbearer can band to lots of neat heroes, but if we used that as a qualification, Gathering would win every time.

Except that Gathering lacks the most essential part of being the best hero.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 08, 2012, 12:31:36 AM
You can go ahead and use Gathering, but since the game will only last 3 turns, you're only helping your opponent.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 08, 2012, 12:57:08 AM
Gathering used to be in many top tier decks a long time ago.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 08, 2012, 08:24:42 AM
Frankly, I think Simeon's the better hero.  Armorbearer can band to lots of neat heroes, but if we used that as a qualification, Gathering would win every time.

Except that Gathering lacks the most essential part of being the best hero.

Nobody uses it?

At any rate, Simeon is the better hero for sure, but not by much, and in the meantime, Armorbearer fits into much, much better decks.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 08, 2012, 09:36:24 AM
Lets be honest, he only fits into a Sam deck. Fbtnb do not even use him.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 08, 2012, 09:38:19 AM
Lets be honest, he only fits into a Sam deck. Fbtnb do not even use him.

The two aren't mutually exclusive, and I'll take a Sam deck over NT prophets any day.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Master KChief on March 08, 2012, 09:46:22 AM
I'm finding these polls to be less and less of 'who is the better hero' and more of 'who is the hero that fits into the most popular decks this year'.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: SomeKittens on March 08, 2012, 09:47:34 AM
I'm finding these polls to be less and less of 'who is the better hero' and more of 'who is the hero that fits into the popular decks this year'.
*sigh*  I agree.  If people focused more on just the heroes, Armorbearer wouldn't even be nominated.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Warrior_Monk on March 08, 2012, 10:26:16 AM
Purple/Red Samuel decks wouldn't be the same without Armorbearer. He's a key hero in a powerful theme. A support card, sure, but still an important hero, which makes him pretty good.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: SomeKittens on March 08, 2012, 11:08:27 AM
Except Purple/Red is one of the worst ways to play Sam.
Title: Re: Round 1 - Green - Simeon or Armorbearer
Post by: Chronic Apathy on March 08, 2012, 11:12:37 AM
I'm finding these polls to be less and less of 'who is the better hero' and more of 'who is the hero that fits into the popular decks this year'.
*sigh*  I agree.  If people focused more on just the heroes, Armorbearer wouldn't even be nominated.

Yes, because a March Madness where Captain of the Host, TSA, Ira, and Benny win every round sounds much more interesting.  ::)
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