Cactus Game Design Message Boards

Who is the better EC?

Neither of these characters should be here. KoT can actually win a battle though.

KoT needs to be punished since he beat SWS, so I vote Wandering Spirit.

I think that King of Tyrus is better at what he does than Wandering Spirit is at what he does. King of Tyrus is (arguably) the best evil character to have in the early game. He stops most early game bands unless your opponent gets lucky with a CBN band, or something like Samuel + Edict. With Gomer, he stops the most common bands in the game, and a lot of them (such as Samuel bands) don't have many CBN enhancements to stop King of Tyrus with. I would argue that King of Tyrus is actually a lot more effective this season than he was last season because unlike last season, when TGT and Disciples (and thus, rampant ignoring and CBN enhancements, respectively) were top dogs, this season relies a lot more on characters, which King of Tyrus (especially with Gomer) is strong against. Wandering Spirit's ability is nice, but right now demons aren't that strong, even when splashed, and WS isn't that good outside of a demon splash (or demon deck).

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 14, 2012, 06:22:29 PM

Instead of avenging SWS, make the person who beat him win. That way you can say there was a fluke match and SWS would have won otherwise.

You know what, I like this better...

...yeah, I love both of those lines of reasoning.  Makes perfect sense to vote for cards based on everything except their abilities.  Yep.

Gotta love groupthink...

I highly doubt you were complaining about groupthink when he was voting for bad reasons but on your side.

Ok, I JUST got on tonight to see his post.  Yes, I would complain.  Seriously, don't tell me what I would or wouldn't think in a situation, that is the ultimate in my pet peeves

It annoys me when people vote this way (that is, with some completely random agenda or slant having nothing to do with the actual card) on some characters, but on their favorites get all bent out of shape if you disagree with them for legitimate reasons.

3.  Some voters may seem stupid to you but that doesn't mean we shouldn't have a say in the outcome.

I take real offense to you saying this without any statement from me saying anyone was stupid or that what they said is stupid.  Do not put words in my mouth.  Again, as I said before, people saying I think something I don't is the ultimate in what I hate.

I never said you don't have the right, either, but who can say with that argument that I don't have the right to be annoyed by you voting this way?  I can also point out that voting based on an agenda in one thread and not on the cards, but getting bent out of shape like some do when their favorites get down-voted makes no sense.  That's also my right.

I dont know why wandering spirit got in there but King of Tyrus is a good card.

Quote from: MattsterNinja on April 14, 2012, 10:25:59 PM

I dont know why wandering spirit got in there but King of Tyrus is a good card.

Wandering Spirit is good in type 2. ( I thnik thats why people are voting for him...) I voted for him because I want to see an upset victory! lol but I voted for WS because orange isnt super powerful and ever since he came out in TexP more decks are using orange. 

Not that I don't like WS but this is about who you think is a better EC not about upset victories, if you really think KoT is the better EC then that's who you should vote for.

I disagree, I think he should vote for who he wants to vote for.  There is no set criteria or standard for voting.  Yes it's a competition about who's the best EC, but there's no rule that says he can't vote based on whatever idea he has of being the 'best.'  If hi123 thinks that he should vote for the underdog he should do it.  If I like a character because it's more fun than another I should vote for it.  If you vote against a character because you dislike it you should do it.  etc. etc. etc...

Basically we should vote how we want.  Debating about the better criteria for voting is find, but saying that someone 'should' or 'shouldn't' vote a particular way is not accurate. 

Sure it's accurate. The competition isn't about petty revenge votes or voting on irrelevant criteria, it's about voting for whoever you think is the best character. The extent of leniency in the criteria a person uses to vote shouldn't extend beyond voting for character or that character's place in a theme, or similar options like that. "I voted for X character because the other character beat my favorite last round" makes trying to have a forum-wide bracket tournament to find the best EC pointless because not everyone is voting for the best EC. For those of us who are trying to take this seriously, it's pretty frustrating.

Quote

I disagree, I think he should vote for who he wants to vote for.  There is no set criteria or standard for voting.  Yes it's a competition about who's the best EC, but there's no rule that says he can't vote based on whatever idea he has of being the 'best.'  If hi123 thinks that he should vote for the underdog he should do it.  If I like a character because it's more fun than another I should vote for it.  If you vote against a character because you dislike it you should do it.  etc. etc. etc...

Basically we should vote how we want.  Debating about the better criteria for voting is find, but saying that someone 'should' or 'shouldn't' vote a particular way is not accurate. 

Sure it's accurate. The competition isn't about petty revenge votes or voting on irrelevant criteria, it's about voting for whoever you think is the best character. The extent of leniency in the criteria a person uses to vote shouldn't extend beyond voting for character or that character's place in a theme, or similar options like that. "I voted for X character because the other character beat my favorite last round" makes trying to have a forum-wide bracket tournament to find the best EC pointless because not everyone is voting for the best EC. For those of us who are trying to take this seriously, it's pretty frustrating.

I worked on a political campaign in my congressional district last year.  I canvased neighborhoods attended rallies and helped my candidate.  Yet despite the efforts of myself and those like me the other candidates won.  I was serious about what I wanted, but I couldn't stop other people from voting for reasons that seemed silly to me. 

The MM system is very similar, it's difficult to get people to see things your way as much as it makes sense to you, and even though you may be right.   Does this mean that those people who have a different opinion (wrong or otherwise) should not be allowed to voice it?   No, of course not, that destroys the market place of ideas, and actually encourages groupthink which can kill diversity of opinions. 

Basically I will agree with you that it's frustrating when people have different opinions which can skew results, but there isn't really a solution to that, unless you think that communism is a reasonable solution of course... 

Keep voicing your opinion. I look forward to at least two more threads that start out with you attempting to convince people KoT isn't that great B)

You are trying to equate this to a political battleground.  It's not.  It is, by definition, a discussion of "BEST Character".

The parallel between politics and MM is that there is no legal definition of "best."  In politics people are allowed to make their own definition of the "best" candidate.  In MM there is no definition of "best" either, so people are allowed to vote the way they want.

If anyone is voting in another way (i.e. based on anything but the cards), then IMO, they can knock it off.  It is incredibly annoying.

  That's just it it's in your opinion, people who vote otherwise have a different opinion.  Should we silence people becasue they have a different opinion?  This the same philosophy that Stalin and Hitler held.  I'm not equating you with Hitler, because you're not.  I am saying though that you ought to be respectful of other opinions even if they may be annoying to you.   

Then these same people hold the debates their own favorites are in to a different standard.  Also annoying.

Again the definition of best allows for different even fluctuation standards.  Though it's frustrating sometimes it is allowed under the rules and is completely legitimate. 

And I'm entitled to that opinion as much as any other is permitted, so you can stop trying to tell me I shouldn't voice it

I'm not trying to stop you from voicing anything.  I am however asking you to respect the opinions of others.  This is something I'm quite familiar with becasue I know a lot of people I disagree with.  For example,  In my circle of acquaintances I know a lot of libertarians.  Some are very vocal about their beliefs.  Though I strongly disagree with a lot of libertarian beliefs I don't tell them that they shouldn't vote for libertarian candidates or openly tell them that their opinions annoy me.  In conclusion I'm not trying to disrespect you or your ideas, I'm just asking you to respect the opinion of others, even if you do disagree with them.