Poll

Who is the better EC?

King of Tyrus
25 (58.1%)
Wandering Spirit
18 (41.9%)

Total Members Voted: 37

Voting closed: April 16, 2012, 11:33:28 AM

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Author Topic: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit  (Read 7936 times)

Offline Redoubter

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2012, 08:45:30 PM »
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Quote from: Wings of Music on April 15, 2012, 08:36:41 PM
This the same philosophy that Stalin and Hitler held.  I'm not equating you with Hitler, because you're not.  I am saying though that you ought to be respectful of other opinions even if they may be annoying to you.   

Aaaand, you just lost the argument by the rules of internet debates.  DO NOT equate what I'm saying to Hitler or Stalin.  And yes, by equating philosophies, you did compare me and my ideas.  Even though you misquoted me again.

You have been disrespectful to me this entire thread, and I haven't been disrespectful at all to what you are describing.  I never said they don't have the right.  I am saying that they are doing something incredibly annoying to me.  That's my right.

I'm going to just ignore your posts from here on out.  If you have something to say to me, do it in PM.  We're done here.
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2012, 09:12:13 PM »
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Quote from: Wings of Music on April 15, 2012, 08:36:41 PM
The parallel between politics and MM is that there is no legal definition of "best."  In politics people are allowed to make their own definition of the "best" candidate.  In MM there is no definition of "best" either, so people are allowed to vote the way they want.

Within reason, sure. But "I'm voting for a character because they beat my favorite character last round" has nothing to do with what is the best evil character, and thus, such voting criteria is irrelevant and skews the results. There's no definition of "best," so I don't mind people voting on a character because of that character and that character alone (as opposed to me, who tends to vote for what character has the best place in a strong theme), but voting because of things that have to do with the tournament itself, rather than the characters in the tournament, makes having a tournament at all pointless.

Quote
That's just it it's in your opinion, people who vote otherwise have a different opinion.  Should we silence people becasue they have a different opinion?  This the same philosophy that Stalin and Hitler held.  I'm not equating you with Hitler, because you're not.  I am saying though that you ought to be respectful of other opinions even if they may be annoying to you.

This isn't politics, it's an internet tournament. I'm respectful of other opinions, but not when they have nothing to do with the actual point of the tournament. As an aside, I very rarely actually see someone fulfill Godwin's Law, so bravo.
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Offline Wings of Music

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2012, 12:09:02 AM »
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Quote from: Redoubter on April 15, 2012, 08:45:30 PM
You have been disrespectful to me this entire thread

I apologize if you feel that you have been disrespected, I have meant none. My posts have not been meant as assaults on your character but rather an attempt to point out the legal legitimacy of certain viewpoints (despite the fact that they may not be legitimate in a practical sense).

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 15, 2012, 09:12:13 PM
Within reason, sure. But "I'm voting for a character because they beat my favorite character last round" has nothing to do with what is the best evil character, and thus, such voting criteria is irrelevant and skews the results. There's no definition of "best," so I don't mind people voting on a character because of that character and that character alone (as opposed to me, who tends to vote for what character has the best place in a strong theme), but voting because of things that have to do with the tournament itself, rather than the characters in the tournament, makes having a tournament at all pointless.
Quote

I wouldn't say that finding the best character is really the point of the tournament.  If we really wanted to figure out what the best character was (according to popular vote) we would have something more like the silent ballot instead of using brackets and match-ups, since the bracketing does a lot to skew results anyway.  I see March Madness not so much as an attempt of find the best character, as it is a chance to support your favorite characters in a match up against other characters.  Though I do agree that the idea of searching for the best character this way is a cool and very fun, I don't think it's the most effective one and as such can be used as an outlet for favoritism.   

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 15, 2012, 09:12:13 PM
This isn't politics, it's an internet tournament. I'm respectful of other opinions, but not when they have nothing to do with the actual point of the tournament. As an aside, I very rarely actually see someone fulfill Godwin's Law, so bravo.

This may not be politics but I think you can find parallels to democracy in any kind of system that functions by popular vote.  I would say that you have been respectful of other opinions, and I appreciate that greatly. I do admire your effort to keep the tournament 'on task' even though I disagree with it slightly.  As for Godwin's Law, I didn't even think about it...  :P

In conclusion I'll just say that in an effort to find common ground and to bring some kind of resolution to this, I'll pledge to avoid voicing my opinions on characters that I think are 'best' for personal reasons.  Sorry to cause such a stir, I just meant to point out that it's legal for each voter to base his opinion on whatever criteria he chooses. 

Blessings,

Wings

   
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Offline lp670sv

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2012, 12:11:34 AM »
+1
Really? Hitler came up in THIS thread? Internet, you never cease to amaze.
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Offline Wings of Music

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #29 on: April 16, 2012, 12:16:51 AM »
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Quote from: lp670sv on April 16, 2012, 12:11:34 AM
Really? Hitler came up in THIS thread? Internet, you never cease to amaze.

 ;) I know sorry bout that, I just finished from a debate tournament, so I had him on the brain, we use him a lot he's the ultimate generic example since he takes 0 background information to explain how he impacts the discussion. because Hitler applies to everything, right?      
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Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #30 on: April 16, 2012, 01:49:33 PM »
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Back on the Topic:

WS I say is better than KoT (Orange) cause you can do so much more than just do a FBTN battle. WS send your demons to the bottom of deck, a great way to use Gates of Hell's ability. Also WS -> SoT -> Gomer -> Male Evil Character makes a much better combo than Gomer -> KoT.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #31 on: April 16, 2012, 02:07:06 PM »
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Quote from: Arrthoa on April 16, 2012, 01:49:33 PM
WS -> SoT -> Gomer -> Male Evil Character makes a much better combo than Gomer -> KoT.
What does WS add to that? SoT and WS going to the bottom if they lose. That's about it. Also, that takes waay more cards than Gomer/KoT (which isn't nearly the best KoT band, just the simplest). Furthermore, KoT can use his FBTN to his advantage by playing CBP/CBN cards, which there are a plethora of with all of his banding options.
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Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #32 on: April 16, 2012, 03:58:34 PM »
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I'm mainly talking about the Orange KoT not the Gold one everyone uses
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #33 on: April 16, 2012, 04:02:07 PM »
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Quote from: Arrthoa on April 16, 2012, 03:58:34 PM
I'm mainly talking about the Orange KoT not the Gold one everyone uses
Although the gold one is better, just as many people can band to the orange one as to the gold one.
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Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #34 on: April 16, 2012, 04:05:24 PM »
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How often though do you see people use the Orange one though? The Meta defense won't use him cause of TGT and you really won't use the Orange except in a Orange splash or Mono-Orange defense.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2012, 04:09:17 PM by Arrthoa »
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Chronic Apathy

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #35 on: April 16, 2012, 04:08:33 PM »
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Quote from: Arrthoa on April 16, 2012, 04:05:24 PM
How often though do you see people use the Orange one though? The Meta defense won't use him cause of TGT and you really won't use the Orange exxcept in a Orange splash or Mono-Orange defense.

I use the orange one in my current deck because I use two other orange evil characters. Those orange evil characters will likely stay in my deck, since they merit me at least one block nearly every game.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #36 on: April 16, 2012, 04:13:55 PM »
+1
Quote from: Arrthoa on April 16, 2012, 04:05:24 PM
How often though do you see people use the Orange one though? The Meta defense won't use him cause of TGT and you really won't use the Orange except in a Orange splash or Mono-Orange defense.
A. The gold one is really hard to find at this point. TGT is a minimal threat since they can easily dispose of Ammy Slave, so you might as well use the orange one. It's a very rare situation for it to actually help.
B. Orange splash is better than gold splash. And Wandering Spirit is definitely less important than KoT in those splashes.
C. It's not about which KoT is used. Sure, the gold one is better than the orange one, but the gold one is also better than Wandering Spirit, as is the orange KoT (IMO).
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Offline Arrthoa

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #37 on: April 17, 2012, 09:06:32 AM »
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I agree that the gold one is better than WS but this is about orange EC so anyone who voted for KoT just cause they like the gold KoT really isn't voting the way they should be.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Orange Championship: King of Tyrus vs. Wandering Spirit
« Reply #38 on: April 17, 2012, 02:51:19 PM »
+1
Quote from: Arrthoa on April 17, 2012, 09:06:32 AM
I agree that the gold one is better than WS but this is about orange EC so anyone who voted for KoT just cause they like the gold KoT really isn't voting the way they should be.
Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 16, 2012, 04:13:55 PM
C. It's not about which KoT is used. Sure, the gold one is better than the orange one, but the gold one is also better than Wandering Spirit, as is the orange KoT (IMO).
I don't see how you can draw such a big line between the gold and the orange. Both are really good. The gold has one more CBN battle winner that nobody uses, the orange one splashes much better.
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