Author Topic: Crimson: 2. Nergalsharezer vs. 7. Nebushasban (Read 5602 times)

Professoralstad · « **on:** April 01, 2012, 05:07:25 PM »

Which is the better EC?

Nergalsharezer
Nebushasban

Alex_Olijar · « **Reply #1 on:** April 01, 2012, 05:08:26 PM »

Nebushasban wins games under the new rules.

Minister Polarius · « **Reply #2 on:** April 01, 2012, 05:26:45 PM »

This is a very difficult choice for me. I'll wait until someone posts some analysis to make up my mind.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #3 on:** April 01, 2012, 05:38:18 PM »

Nergal
Pros:
Bab
Only CBN crimson
W/C

Cons:
Needs another bab
Needs Swift Horses or he'll never get inish
Needs enhancements
Doesn't have many great enhancements to play on him

Nebbyshash
Pros:
Switches souls (can win battles and games)
Gets inish to drop the Image and Bel's Banquet

Cons:
Negatable

Nebbyshash is awesome.

Red Wing · « **Reply #4 on:** April 01, 2012, 06:11:18 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 05:38:18 PM

Nergal
Pros:
Bab
Only CBN crimson
W/C

Cons:
Needs another bab
Needs Swift Horses or he'll never get inish
Doesn't have many great enhancements to play on him

Nebbyshash
Pros:
Switches souls (can win battles and games)

Cons:
Negatable

Nebbyshash is awesome.

I agree. I vote Nebushasban.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #5 on:** April 01, 2012, 06:53:35 PM »

It's super close for me but I'm gonna go Nergal here. yes he takes a bit of set up but he makes crimson battle winners into CBN beasts. It takes set up sure, but once he is set up it's really really tough to get past. It's super close though, I may actually come back and change it later.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #6 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:09:52 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 06:53:35 PM

It's super close for me but I'm gonna go Nergal here. yes he takes a bit of set up but he makes crimson battle winners into CBN beasts. It takes set up sure, but once he is set up it's really really tough to get past. It's super close though, I may actually come back and change it later.

You should probably change it now.

Besides, name 3 good Crimson battle winners.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #7 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:24:22 PM »

I can only think of two good battle winners

. B's Banquet, and Nebby's Pride.

But there's Great image (not a battle winner but can win games if played right), and don't forget imitating evil which can bring back Nebbys pride or B's banquet.

But yeah...

I'm still not totally convinced but I'm more convinced than I was...

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #8 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:27:52 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 07:09:52 PM

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 06:53:35 PM
It's super close for me but I'm gonna go Nergal here. yes he takes a bit of set up but he makes crimson battle winners into CBN beasts. It takes set up sure, but once he is set up it's really really tough to get past. It's super close though, I may actually come back and change it later.
You should probably change it now.

Besides, name 3 good Crimson battle winners.

Carried Into Exile, Nebuchadnezzar's Pride, Head of Gold. Capture prevention really isn't that popular right now; TGT/Water Tomb don't have any built in, Gardensciples and Disciples only have Phil/Bart, Genesis doesn't have any built in, and Sam only really has Ahimelek. If timed right, or if you use DoN to get rid of Tassels (or Covenant with Palestine post-CiE/HoG), Head of Gold is a game winner at the end of the game, if you're using a sizable defense. Great Image/Banquet is also a plus.

Wings of Music · « **Reply #9 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:32:30 PM »

That's true I didn't think about those. Capture protection/prevention is relatively prevalent in my local meta so captures didn't come right to my mind. But yeah those can be awesome battle-winners based on who you're matched up with.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #10 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:42:21 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 07:32:30 PM

That's true I didn't think about those. Capture protection/prevention is relatively prevalent in my local meta so captures didn't come right to my mind. But yeah those can be awesome battle-winners based on who you're matched up with.

Capture protection is easy enough to get around for one turn if you need it. If I was playing Babs with Head of Gold, I'd probably use Destruction of Nehushtan to get rid of any Tassels and then hope for the best. CwP doesn't work against Nerg using Head of Gold.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #11 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:45:08 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 07:24:22 PM

I can only think of two good battle winners . B's Banquet, and Nebby's Pride.

But there's Great image (not a battle winner but can win games if played right), and don't forget imitating evil which can bring back Nebbys pride or B's banquet.

And Bel's Banquet kills Nerg. Have fun with that one.

As for Chronic, I hold to that capture protection is far too rampant for them to stop, T1 or T2. Obby's Caves alone shuts it down.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #12 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:49:09 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 07:45:08 PM

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 07:24:22 PM
I can only think of two good battle winners . B's Banquet, and Nebby's Pride.

But there's Great image (not a battle winner but can win games if played right), and don't forget imitating evil which can bring back Nebbys pride or B's banquet.
And Bel's Banquet kills Nerg. Have fun with that one.

As for Chronic, I hold to that capture protection is far too rampant for them to stop, T1 or T2. Obby's Caves alone shuts it down.

I think it's possible to stop capture protection for one turn. Obi's Caves shut it down, but protecting Joseph, Sam, and a Prophets deck isn't really that huge of a deal, especially if you manage to get off a Great Image in the late-game. Otherwise, capture protection is limited since Disciples (and thus, Phil/Bart) isn't dominating the meta this year, and most themes require a dedicated artifact for said protection. I hold that Head of Gold has a much, much better chance of being a game-changer than it was last year.

Drrek · « **Reply #13 on:** April 01, 2012, 07:53:01 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 01, 2012, 07:49:09 PM

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 07:24:22 PM
I can only think of two good battle winners . B's Banquet, and Nebby's Pride.

But there's Great image (not a battle winner but can win games if played right), and don't forget imitating evil which can bring back Nebbys pride or B's banquet.
And Bel's Banquet kills Nerg. Have fun with that one.

As for Chronic, I hold to that capture protection is far too rampant for them to stop, T1 or T2. Obby's Caves alone shuts it down.

I think it's possible to stop capture protection for one turn. Obi's Caves shut it down, but protecting Joseph, Sam, and a Prophets deck isn't really that huge of a deal, especially if you manage to get off a Great Image in the late-game. Otherwise, capture protection is limited since Disciples (and thus, Phil/Bart) isn't dominating the meta this year, and most themes require a dedicated artifact for said protection. I hold that Head of Gold has a much, much better chance of being a game-changer than it was last year.

Don't forget Soldiers snipe an artifact, and forest fire can too, and Axe can hit a fortress. So its not like they have no answers for capture protection.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #14 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:00:11 PM »

Quote from: Drrek on April 01, 2012, 07:53:01 PM

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 01, 2012, 07:49:09 PM
Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 07:45:08 PM
Quote from: Wings of Music on April 01, 2012, 07:24:22 PM
I can only think of two good battle winners . B's Banquet, and Nebby's Pride.

But there's Great image (not a battle winner but can win games if played right), and don't forget imitating evil which can bring back Nebbys pride or B's banquet.
And Bel's Banquet kills Nerg. Have fun with that one.

As for Chronic, I hold to that capture protection is far too rampant for them to stop, T1 or T2. Obby's Caves alone shuts it down.

I think it's possible to stop capture protection for one turn. Obi's Caves shut it down, but protecting Joseph, Sam, and a Prophets deck isn't really that huge of a deal, especially if you manage to get off a Great Image in the late-game. Otherwise, capture protection is limited since Disciples (and thus, Phil/Bart) isn't dominating the meta this year, and most themes require a dedicated artifact for said protection. I hold that Head of Gold has a much, much better chance of being a game-changer than it was last year.

Don't forget Soldiers snipe an artifact, and forest fire can too, and Axe can hit a fortress. So its not like they have no answers for capture protection.

The game will be almost over before you get that set up. Nebby is basically an autoblock (and can rid you of at least one soul with SoG/NJ) and can be used in any deck.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #15 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:07:58 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 08:00:11 PM

The game will be almost over before you get that set up. Nebby is basically an autoblock (and can rid you of at least one soul with SoG/NJ) and can be used in any deck.

Neb is nowhere near an auto-block the vast majority of the time you'll use him, especially since 2-Liner won't get as much use and the rampancy of the FBTN Lost Soul reduces his usefulness in switching for a NT or Female Only Lost Soul. I admit that he did get some benefits out of the new rules, but I think he also got hurt by them, and he ended up being balanced to roughly the same level he was overall. He definitely can't be used in any deck; he's not really splashable because, as I mentioned, I don't think he's an auto-block as much as you seem to think he is. He might be a block at the very beginning of a game, but there are better characters to use for early game blocks. Don't get me wrong, I'll use him in any Babylonian deck I have, but I don't think he has any use outside of a Babylonian deck.

Warrior_Monk · « **Reply #16 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:10:12 PM »

Quote from: Chronic Apathy on April 01, 2012, 08:07:58 PM

I don't think he has any use outside of a Babylonian deck.

...and Nergal does?

Agree to disagree at this point. I think Soul Devastation is a good strategy with the new rules and Nebbyshash is key. Plus, his name is easier to spell.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #17 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:20:32 PM »

Quote from: Ring Wraith on April 01, 2012, 08:10:12 PM

...and Nergal does?

You said Neb could be used in any deck - a point I disagree with. At any rate, yes, agree to disagree.

CJSports · « **Reply #18 on:** April 01, 2012, 08:28:14 PM »

Chronic, that's where your supposed to say I disagree to agree to disagree. It makes things more interesting especially since I would've agreed to disagree to agree to disagree on Wring Wraith's side. Things like this add so much flavor to life.

Redoubter · « **Reply #19 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:42:38 AM »

All I can say is that I'm genuinely terrified when I see Nerg with horses out, especially if I can't touch him due to HQ. Head of Gold being CBN is absolutely devastating.

And yes, swapping LS is nice, but I actually see players stopping the use of any LS they can't rescue, as the swapping with start to creep into meta. Thus, an OT offense won't be using the NT-only as much (or they'll use FBTN LS).

Josh · « **Reply #20 on:** April 02, 2012, 08:01:33 AM »

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:42:38 AM

And yes, swapping LS is nice, but I actually see players stopping the use of any LS they can't rescue, as the swapping with start to creep into meta. Thus, an OT offense won't be using the NT-only as much (or they'll use FBTN LS).

OT offenses basically have to use the FBTN LS no matter what their deck is.

Minion of Jesus · « **Reply #21 on:** April 02, 2012, 08:26:38 AM »

Also, what if your opponent attacks with a greater then 7/7 hero? Then Nergy has initiative (unless AotL is played)

Wings of Music · « **Reply #22 on:** April 02, 2012, 09:59:46 AM »

Quote from: jmhartz on April 02, 2012, 08:01:33 AM

Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:42:38 AM
And yes, swapping LS is nice, but I actually see players stopping the use of any LS they can't rescue, as the swapping with start to creep into meta. Thus, an OT offense won't be using the NT-only as much (or they'll use FBTN LS).

OT offenses basically have to use the FBTN LS no matter what their deck is.

I would that agree with that statement entirely, but for the most part I would agree, I think if you have the exchanger + a bunch of soul gen + an alternative way to negate lost souls included in your deck I think you're ok to drop FBTN.

Chronic Apathy · « **Reply #23 on:** April 02, 2012, 11:18:17 AM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 02, 2012, 09:59:46 AM

Quote from: jmhartz on April 02, 2012, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:42:38 AM
And yes, swapping LS is nice, but I actually see players stopping the use of any LS they can't rescue, as the swapping with start to creep into meta. Thus, an OT offense won't be using the NT-only as much (or they'll use FBTN LS).

OT offenses basically have to use the FBTN LS no matter what their deck is.

I would that agree with that statement entirely, but for the most part I would agree, I think if you have the exchanger + a bunch of soul gen + an alternative way to negate lost souls included in your deck I think you're ok to drop FBTN.

I disagree with this for a couple reasons. Most decks in general don't use sites, and with that in mind, the FBTN Lost Soul is handy when you do play against decks with sites, as it prevents the two discard Lost Souls. Additionally, many OT offenses don't have NT heroes or females, so negating those two can be the difference between winning or losing.

Josh · « **Reply #24 on:** April 02, 2012, 12:35:05 PM »

Quote from: Wings of Music on April 02, 2012, 09:59:46 AM

Quote from: jmhartz on April 02, 2012, 08:01:33 AM
Quote from: Redoubter on April 02, 2012, 12:42:38 AM
And yes, swapping LS is nice, but I actually see players stopping the use of any LS they can't rescue, as the swapping with start to creep into meta. Thus, an OT offense won't be using the NT-only as much (or they'll use FBTN LS).

OT offenses basically have to use the FBTN LS no matter what their deck is.

I would that agree with that statement entirely, but for the most part I would agree, I think if you have the exchanger + a bunch of soul gen + an alternative way to negate lost souls included in your deck I think you're ok to drop FBTN.

Pretty much all OT offenses are also males. Abigail, a few Genesis heroes, maybe Deborah or Jael? I'm trying to think of others that would actually see use in a competitive deck. That right there locks you out of 2 possible souls in your opponent's deck, 3 for your males with less than 4 defense.

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Which is the better EC?

Author Topic: Crimson: 2. Nergalsharezer vs. 7. Nebushasban (Read 5602 times)

Warrior_Monk

Warrior_Monk

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy

Warrior_Monk

Chronic Apathy

Warrior_Monk

Chronic Apathy

Warrior_Monk

Chronic Apathy

Chronic Apathy