Poll

Which is the better Redemption hero?

Jacob
26 (45.6%)
Susanna
31 (54.4%)

Total Members Voted: 50

Voting closed: March 31, 2011, 10:10:33 AM

Author Topic: Championship - Jacob or Susanna  (Read 9828 times)

Offline Bryon

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Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« on: March 28, 2011, 10:10:34 AM »
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Which is the better Redemption hero?

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2011, 10:23:50 AM »
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Jacob never should have made it this far. This should be a blow out.

drb1200

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 10:26:42 AM »
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Jacob never should have made it this far. This should be a blow out.
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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 10:47:45 AM »
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Susanna is critical for TGT.  Jacob is critical for Genesis.  TGT is stronger than Genesis (although TGT is hurting now with Golgotha).
Natural brigade point = Susanna

Susanna is probably not going to be splashed into anything.  Jacob is great in an Angel deck and a speed deck.
Splashibility = Jacob

Susanna helps your offense (getting card from top) and defense (putting LSs on bottom).  Jacob helps your offense (banding, ignore, CTB, BTN, discard, etc.) and your defense (stealing a site).
Versatility = Jacob

Susanna usually gets initiative due to low numbers.  Jacob ALWAYS gets initiative due to his play first SA.
Initiative = Jacob

Susanna can't win by herself, and can't win without GEs.  Jacob can't win by himself, but CAN win without GEs (by banding).
Raw power = Jacob

Winner (4-1) = Jacob
This is not even close, I'm surprised Susanna made it this far.

Offline STAMP

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 10:58:25 AM »
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Neither one.
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Offline 3-Liner And Bags Of Chips

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 10:59:13 AM »
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Oh susanna!
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Offline Minister Polarius

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 11:03:55 AM »
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Susanna is critical for TGT.  Jacob is critical for Genesis.  TGT is stronger than Genesis (although TGT is hurting now with Golgotha).
Natural brigade point = Susanna

Susanna is probably not going to be splashed into anything.  Jacob is great in an Angel deck and a speed deck.
Splashibility = Jacob

Susanna helps your offense (getting card from top) and defense (putting LSs on bottom).  Jacob helps your offense (banding, ignore, CTB, BTN, discard, etc.) and your defense (stealing a site).
Versatility = Jacob

Susanna usually gets initiative due to low numbers.  Jacob ALWAYS gets initiative due to his play first SA.
Initiative = Jacob

Susanna can't win by herself, and can't win without GEs.  Jacob can't win by himself, but CAN win without GEs (by banding).
Raw power = Jacob

Winner (4-1) = Jacob
This is not even close, I'm surprised Susanna made it this far.
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Offline Red

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 11:07:48 AM »
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Susanna is better. She deck thins and buries LS with great numbers. Jacob doesn't have any of that. She also is NT and female.
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Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 11:22:26 AM »
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Should be Susypoo v Mawzuhz

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 11:42:48 AM »
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I vote for Generous Widow or Watchful Servant.

Offline Michael_of_the_Star

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 12:12:48 PM »
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Susanna is better. She deck thins and buries LS with great numbers. Jacob doesn't have any of that. She also is NT and female.

Also few things.

Susanna have the capability to assess to all lost souls. Jacob don't.
Lost Soul accessibility= Susanna

Susanna have one of the best art and effect
Visualization= Susanna

Susanna and Jacob both can have a lot of initiative; however, if you are to splash Jacob into a silver deck or speed deck, you would not happen to have all Blue Genesis Enhancement. Therefore, initiative still would be Susanna.

Lastly, Susanna is foil, Jacob is not. (LOL)

Thanks.
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Offline Cpt.Jaeger

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 12:39:19 PM »
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Susanna is better. She deck thins and buries LS with great numbers. Jacob doesn't have any of that. She also is NT and female.

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Offline Prof Underwood

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 12:42:31 PM »
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Susanna have the capability to assess to all lost souls. Jacob don't.
Lost Soul accessibility= Susanna
Considering how many people are playing with NT and female heroes these days, putting the NT-only or Female-only LS in your deck like putting a no-SA LS in your deck.  So those souls are no longer relevant, and therefore, neither is this distinction between Jacob and Susanna.

Susanna have one of the best art and effect
Visualization= Susanna
I don't pick best hero based on what the card art looks like.  But if I did, then Jacob would totally win.  Jacob is actually wrestling with an angel in the picture.  You can't even tell which of the 4 women sitting there listening to Jesus is Susanna in her picture.

Susanna and Jacob both can have a lot of initiative; however, if you are to splash Jacob into a silver deck or speed deck, you would not happen to have all Blue Genesis Enhancement. Therefore, initiative still would be Susanna.
If you splash Jacob into a silver deck, then you don't need Genesis Enhancements for him because he can just band to all your angels and you can use silver enhancements.  And if you include enhancements in their own brigade, then Jacob has better initiative because it's automatic.

Lastly, Susanna is foil, Jacob is not. (LOL)
That is also a point for Jacob in that his card is more likely to be in mint condition instead of all warped like all the TexP cards.

I can't believe that so many people are voting for Susanna here.  It smacks of conspiracy, because logically Jacob is a FAR better hero in Redemption.

Offline Alex_Olijar

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2011, 12:44:25 PM »
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Jacob isn't even good? He has arguably one of the most easibly countered abilities in today's meta (playing, banding, by extention ignoring, converting in territory, or searching). Susanna has a CBN ability that is not protected against by anything. That alone gives her the win to me.

Rawrlolsauce!

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2011, 12:46:57 PM »
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Susana is able to use useful enhancements. Point to Suzy.
Suzy is able to do something useful with her SA. Point to Suzy.
AA makes you vote for Suzy. Point to Suzy.
Suzy helps both offense and defense. Jacob helps your opponent (by clogging your deck with garbage). Point to Suzy.

Offline Michael_of_the_Star

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2011, 12:54:34 PM »
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Susanna have the capability to assess to all lost souls. Jacob don't.
Lost Soul accessibility= Susanna
Considering how many people are playing with NT and female heroes these days, putting the NT-only or Female-only LS in your deck like putting a no-SA LS in your deck.  So those souls are no longer relevant, and therefore, neither is this distinction between Jacob and Susanna.

Well sorry, not every is so rich that they can buy eight tins and eight disciples to build  deck with new lost souls. I am still using NT only, female only and often */4 lost souls. If you would play Brandon, he would blow your mind with souls from the Warrior sets.

Jacob isn't even good? He has arguably one of the most easibly countered abilities in today's meta (playing, banding, by extention ignoring, converting in territory, or searching). Susanna has a CBN ability that is not protected against by anything. That alone gives her the win to me.

I love cards that said cannot be negated or cannot be prevented. These cards allow us to do things we want and no one can stop. Even just with Susanna by it self, we can do a mini speed with her. Haven't you seen people just go in with Susanna for battle challenge and just take a peak at the top of the deck. That helped me a lot with Son of God and New Jerusalem.

Yeah that is right, Susanna help me won a game for revealing Son of God, while Jacob do nothing of these. Thanks.

ML.
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2011, 01:05:33 PM »
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Prof, the main problem with your point system is that all of the points are the same. Here's how it should be:

Natural Brigade:
White is arguably the best good brigade in the game, but we'll say second, because that seems to be the common vote. 7 points (out of 8).
Blue is not close to that. In fact, of the best brigades, it has the least points, and wouldn't have any points if not for RDT feeling bad that everybody agrees that it's not the best.
2 points (and that's being generous)

Splashability:
Susy can't be splashed...at all.
0 points
Jacob is good in old school speed and FBTN
1 point (I'm not even sure I'd give him that much, considering there are about 3 people who play splash decks that are actually competitive. Everything is brigades and themes now)

Initiative:
Susy has 1 offense. That's pretty crazy.
3 points Susy
Jacob has 6 offense and 5 defense. He gets to play a genesis enhancement, but after that will give the opponent plenty of initiative.
3 points Jacob

Raw power:
If Susy doesn't have any enhancement support, she can pretty easily grab it, and possibly win the game by looking for Soggy or an enhancement
2 points Susy
If Jacob doesn't have any enhancement support, he has to band to Captain...and if there isn't Captain, then he's basically worthless
1 point Jacob
If Susy doesn't have any character or enhancement support, she's worthless.
0 points
If Jacob doesn't have any character or enhancement support, he's worthless
0 points.

Susy=12
Jacob=7
If I counted right. Susanna is definitely better.

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2011, 01:42:16 PM »
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That really should have been Thad up there, I'm sorry guys.  Of these two, I'm going to go with Susanna.  I'm biased there, as NT Purple/White is my favorite.
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Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2011, 01:43:06 PM »
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Like so many others I am shocked that Jacob made it so far, I thought that Jacob would have lost a while back, I still think that Thaddeus should have made it to the final round, not Jacob, I can understand Susanna making it that far, but Jacob in my opinion shouldn't have. So if Susanna doesn't win this, then I will be truly shocked.

Warrior_Monk

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2011, 01:48:03 PM »
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It probably should have been Thad...but then again, it should have been Purdue...but I'm rooting for the one who beats those people! Go VCU and Susy!

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2011, 01:50:47 PM »
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It probably should have been Thad...but then again, it should have been Purdue...but I'm rooting for the one who beats those people! Go VCU and Susy!
My playgroup made brackets, and one of our guys voted against Thad (even though he had him winning that round) so that the rest of us wouldn't get the points.  Thus, that particular vote wasn't decided by who was the better hero, but a bracket I decided to set up.  So, I apologize to the greater Redemption community.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 02:25:52 PM by SomeKittens »
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Offline Tom Bombadil

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2011, 02:21:43 PM »
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It probably should have been Thad...but then again, it should have been Purdue...but I'm rooting for the one who beats those people! Go VCU and Susy!
My playgroup made brackets, and one of our guys voted against Thad (even though he had him winning that round) so that the rest of us wouldn't get the points.  Thus, that particular vote wasn't decided by who was the better hero, but a bracket I decided to set up.

I was one of the guys in the group that had Thad winning it all, so did Somekittens, what made matters worse in that opinion is the fact that despite the guy voting against Thad, they still tied and the win was given to the other person, where if the person in our group didn't do that then Thad would have in fact won.

Offline Bryon

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2011, 02:44:16 PM »
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Captain probably would have beaten Thad.  Then again, I was sure that Captain would beat Susanna.

There seems to be a lot of love for the white ladies in the online Redemption community!

Offline SomeKittens

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2011, 02:47:47 PM »
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Mods, feel free to delete this if it's deemed inappropriate, but it's become a submeme in our group:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGQ-ISsDm8M
Mind not the ignorant fool on the other side of the screen!-BubbleBoy
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Warrior_Monk

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Re: Championship - Jacob or Susanna
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2011, 02:49:57 PM »
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Redemption is surprisingly derived of female players, I figure if the best hero is a female, maybe it'll attract more?

Besides, the best brigade is white. She's the best hero of the best brigade. Although Thad is the hero of the best theme.

And Captain isn't that good, despite all the love for him. 12FG (which is in 2 out of 3 of my decks, and the deck it isn't in has 5 Haman's Plots and 5 Gib's Tricks) shuts down Captain cold.

The Generous Widow should be here instead of Jacob. That was a crazy upset...what is with my picks losing in the second round? Pitts, Purdue, Gen Widow, Joiada...

 


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