Author Topic: Why is everyone so upset about The Garden Tomb.... (Read 9160 times)

Jack Skellington · « **on:** March 22, 2009, 10:26:00 PM »

ok so i do use a TGT offense......
and in the around 70 games ive played with it....i've used it's special ability a whopping 2 TIMES.........EVER.....
i mean is everyone seeing some hidden power that i'm not.....besides its own SA and the un-negatable band?

As far as annoying fortresses go.....isn't Judges Seat way more annoying?
i mean really?

just wondering

Colin Michael · « **Reply #1 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:31:11 PM »

Quote

Re: Why is everyone so upset about The Garden Tomb....

'Cause it's bleeding OP'd!

Jack Skellington · « **Reply #2 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:31:50 PM »

Quote from: Colin Michael on March 22, 2009, 10:31:11 PM

Quote
Re: Why is everyone so upset about The Garden Tomb....
'Cause it's bleeding OP'd!

my qusetion is.......why???

Cameron the Conqueror · « **Reply #3 on:** March 22, 2009, 10:49:22 PM »

Judges seat at least lets you block or just CM the hero.

With TGT, you can't EVEN BLOCK! That is why everyone hates it.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #4 on:** March 22, 2009, 11:09:32 PM »

and don't to mention it gets used against you like a traitor named judas iscariot

Colin Michael · « **Reply #5 on:** March 22, 2009, 11:15:05 PM »

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 22, 2009, 11:09:32 PM

and don't to mention it gets used against you like a traitor named judas iscariot

Was that supposed to be funny?

A Bob Dylan reference perhaps?

Gabe · « **Reply #6 on:** March 22, 2009, 11:21:09 PM »

I think it's a reference to a game we played a few months ago where my Claudia kept banding to his John to use his TGT to rescue souls uncontested. He immediately removed TGT from his deck and refuses to play with it anymore.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #7 on:** March 22, 2009, 11:26:17 PM »

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 22, 2009, 11:21:09 PM

I think it's a reference to a game we played a few months ago where my Claudia kept banding to his John to use his TGT to rescue souls uncontested. He immediately removed TGT from his deck and refuses to play with it anymore.

it is as a matter of fact.
after that i refuse to play TGT.
i'd rather find a way to kill it like MASK tries against speed

Jack Skellington · « **Reply #8 on:** March 22, 2009, 11:55:07 PM »

then this just goes to show that it's not only good for the owner.......therefore it's slightly more balanced.....

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 22, 2009, 11:26:17 PM

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 22, 2009, 11:21:09 PM
I think it's a reference to a game we played a few months ago where my Claudia kept banding to his John to use his TGT to rescue souls uncontested. He immediately removed TGT from his deck and refuses to play with it anymore.
it is as a matter of fact.
after that i refuse to play TGT.
i'd rather find a way to kill it like MASK tries against speed

there are plenty ways to kill it easily.......

Quote from: Cameron the Conqueror on March 22, 2009, 10:49:22 PM

Judges seat at least lets you block or just CM the hero.

With TGT, you can't EVEN BLOCK! That is why everyone hates it.

you can use CM anyhow............and usually it only works if your opponent uses a big splash deck....or they have a bad draw all game......

The Schaef · « **Reply #9 on:** March 23, 2009, 06:27:14 AM »

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 22, 2009, 11:26:17 PM

Quote from: BrianGabe on March 22, 2009, 11:21:09 PM
I think it's a reference to a game we played a few months ago where my Claudia kept banding to his John to use his TGT to rescue souls uncontested. He immediately removed TGT from his deck and refuses to play with it anymore.
it is as a matter of fact.
after that i refuse to play TGT.

You'd rather take Garden Tomb out than just put Wall of Protection in?

Jack Skellington · « **Reply #10 on:** March 23, 2009, 10:13:01 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on March 23, 2009, 06:27:14 AM

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 22, 2009, 11:26:17 PM
Quote from: BrianGabe on March 22, 2009, 11:21:09 PM
I think it's a reference to a game we played a few months ago where my Claudia kept banding to his John to use his TGT to rescue souls uncontested. He immediately removed TGT from his deck and refuses to play with it anymore.
it is as a matter of fact.
after that i refuse to play TGT.

You'd rather take Garden Tomb out than just put Wall of Protection in?

haha lol

New Raven BR · « **Reply #11 on:** March 23, 2009, 10:14:18 PM »

Quote from: The Schaef on March 23, 2009, 06:27:14 AM

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 22, 2009, 11:26:17 PM
Quote from: BrianGabe on March 22, 2009, 11:21:09 PM
I think it's a reference to a game we played a few months ago where my Claudia kept banding to his John to use his TGT to rescue souls uncontested. He immediately removed TGT from his deck and refuses to play with it anymore.
it is as a matter of fact.
after that i refuse to play TGT.

You'd rather take Garden Tomb out than just put Wall of Protection in?

doesn't matter, TGT will fail it's users

stefferweffer · « **Reply #12 on:** March 23, 2009, 11:57:22 PM »

If "splash deck" means defenses of more than one color, then yes, that is why I don't like it. Why should there be one card that destroys a particular type of defense, and is also so hard to get rid of itself. Was "splash defense" overpowered before the Garden Tomb came out? Many EC elimination decks already had Jepthah, Women as Snares, Ark of the Covenant, and Holy Grail in them before Garden Tomb came out. Now those decks, in my humble, newbie opinion, are overpowered with the addition of Garden Tomb. But rather than change my favorite defense, I've decided to not change a thing, and when my opponent puts Garden Tomb into play I immediately congratulate my opponent and concede the game. It's just not a fun game (for me) if there are no actual battles, and I'd rather lose and start another game. The again I took Falling Away, Guardian of Your Souls, Harvest Time, and New Jerusalem out of all my decks too, because I play with many newer players who don't have those cards. And when I play someone who does have them I like the challenge. But this is just me. I wrote a long diatribe against Garden Tomb a few days ago, and actually got some really good ideas from other players on how to defend against it. But I decided I like my decks just the way they are. It's just a game anyway

Ironica · « **Reply #13 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:13:30 AM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on March 23, 2009, 11:57:22 PM

Why should there be one card that destroys a particular type of defense, and is also so hard to get rid of itself.

You mean like how Egyptian defense always have to worry about JTE (and freak out when they see Jochebed or a gold offense that recalls Drowning of Pharaoh’s Army a few times)?

stefferweffer · « **Reply #14 on:** March 24, 2009, 02:20:53 AM »

I would suggest that there are much easier ways to deal with, negate, or destroy the cards you mention, but actually getting rid of a New Testament fortress like Garden Tomb takes quite a feat. Actually Gold has one of the few evil cards that can negate it. But you make a good point that certain colors are vulnerable to one or two particular cards, but the Garden Tomb is far more versatile than the cards you mention, and an unfortunate opening draw (1 or less EC) for the opponent can spell doom from the start.

Tsavong Lah · « **Reply #15 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:17:38 AM »

Self + KoTW?

stefferweffer · « **Reply #16 on:** March 24, 2009, 07:41:39 AM »

Yes, this is one of the ways that was suggested to me. But then I realized that if the hero Self has copied is discarded or leaves play, so does Self. It still seemed a little fragile. If I were the Garden Tomb player I would likely Martyr my own hero just to discard Self. But thanks for pointing that defense out, as it is one of the best there is against Garden Tomb.

crustpope · « **Reply #17 on:** March 24, 2009, 07:53:22 AM »

Well if you dont like self in KoTW, then put one of your own EC in KotW and play a rogue defense. I pretty much play only rogue defenses now anyway so I dont have much of a problem with TGT but I know that a lot of people do play splash or standalone defenses so I like playing TGT for that reason. Until people wise up and play only 1 or 2 brigades, TGT is going to wreck them.

second, you have to have at least 1 LS for TGT to work against you plust you can use TGT against your opponent. Splash a little white in your offense and have fun.

The Schaef · « **Reply #18 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:47:17 PM »

Quote from: New Raven (trying to change) BR on March 23, 2009, 10:14:18 PM

doesn't matter, TGT will fail it's users

Based on some of the feedback here, I'd say the opposite is true, that it works quite nicely for its users. It failed YOU maybe, but I'm not about to slam for example speed decks just because I've never built one that owned a tournament.

People have a similar complaint about Zeb decks but if you know what to look out for they can be dealt with also.

New Raven BR · « **Reply #19 on:** March 24, 2009, 12:52:12 PM »

z.temple decks i think shouldn't be a problem to kill

stefferweffer · « **Reply #20 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:09:38 PM »

First of all, being new, I have no idea what a "Rogue" defense is. Can someone please explain this term? Second, why does someone playing "splash" have to "wise up and play 1 or 2 brigades"? Are we saying that splash is wrong or somehow breaking the rules of the game? What I liked about splash is that it was actually doable in Redemption, as opposed to almost every other ccg out there. And now it is getting attacked, and I don't understand why. Isn't wondrous variety a good thing?

Colin Michael · « **Reply #21 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:25:41 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on March 24, 2009, 01:09:38 PM

First of all, being new, I have no idea what a "Rogue" defense is. Can someone please explain this term? Second, why does someone playing "splash" have to "wise up and play 1 or 2 brigades"? Are we saying that splash is wrong or somehow breaking the rules of the game? What I liked about splash is that it was actually doable in Redemption, as opposed to almost every other ccg out there. And now it is getting attacked, and I don't understand why. Isn't wondrous variety a good thing?

To call a defense "rogue" usually means it is either mono or a strategy outside of the current metagame.

crustpope · « **Reply #22 on:** March 24, 2009, 01:41:02 PM »

Quote from: stefferweffer on March 24, 2009, 01:09:38 PM

First of all, being new, I have no idea what a "Rogue" defense is.

I meant it as the single color defense

Quote

Second, why does someone playing "splash" have to "wise up and play 1 or 2 brigades"? Are we saying that splash is wrong or somehow breaking the rules of the game?

No, it is not wrong or illegal it's just met its match in TGT. You can still play it sucessfully, you just will have a hard time beating TGT

Quote

What I liked about splash is that it was actually doable in Redemption, as opposed to almost every other ccg out there. And now it is getting attacked, and I don't understand why. Isn't wondrous variety a good thing?

Yes, wondrous variety is good. But the standard multiplayer deck defense was a splash standalone defense. This card forces multiplayer decks to try to counter it, forcing the "wonderous variety" of defenses you speak of...just ina different way.

Splash defenses are also somewhat popular in 2 player games so those likewise will have to consider TGT. of course some will continue to play splash, but not as many as before.

Ironica · « **Reply #23 on:** March 24, 2009, 03:20:48 PM »

Also consider that many defenses has an offense that is their rival. For example, one of my decks' defense is purly based on capture (with only one discard hero enhancement). It went nicely until I first hit a Z-Temple deck. After that game, I didn't think that Z-Temple was OP or that my defense (whch was my main deck at the time) was now useless. I just added a card to my deck in case I do face a Z-temple deck again. All you really have to do is find it's weakness and exploit it with a couple of cards.

Jack Skellington · « **Reply #24 on:** March 24, 2009, 06:21:03 PM »

thank you ALL for pointing out that some cards might seem overpowered at first but sitll have a variety of weeknesses and can be defated with a cartain process of thought.........................

this was what i was attempting to point out

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Author Topic: Why is everyone so upset about The Garden Tomb.... (Read 9160 times)

The Schaef

Ironica

The Schaef

Ironica