New Redemption Grab Bag now includes an assortment of 500 cards from five (5) different expansion sets. Available at Cactus website.
I'm frustrated with the lack of response from the people arguing the other side, thus my negativity.
However, what does that have to do with the rule change?
I really don't think that the target audience of the starter deck should have any impact on rule changes.
However, you seem to be insinuating that the new players are the only ones who are going to be affected by this, which is very much not true.
Yes, I know what a target audience is. I was purposefully redefining the word, if you will. The point is, in order for Cactus to increase sales and Redemption to grow, they need new players to join, not players like us to like the game MORE. If this rule can do that, and yes it's VERY arguable, but this is what the heart of the debate comes down to, then it's a good rule, even if some players hate it and think it makes speed more powerful. I hope that makes sense. My last sentence should have said, "...make it easier and more satisfying for NEW players to play the game..." Sorry for the confusion.
Quote from: browarod on October 15, 2011, 08:31:16 PMI really don't think that the target audience of the starter deck should have any impact on rule changes.I do. We agree to disagree.
I was not insinuating that.
I really don't think that the target audience of the starter deck should have any impact on rule changes. I agree that the printing of a new rule book is a good time to solidify rulings one way or another because then they can be put it into print so people that don't know about the REG can still update to the changes. However, you seem to be insinuating that the new players are the only ones who are going to be affected by this, which is very much not true. Everyone is affected whether they actually buy the new starter decks or not, so I don't think catering to one group of people over another should even be considered (whether it be catering to the new players who have to rely on the starter deck's rulebook or catering to the advanced players here on the board).
100% I think this is incorrect, and I've said why. Setting aside the previous 14 pages, to isolate this argument for simplicities' sake. Cactus needs new players to grow. The simpler the game, the more new players can adapt. If you are [upset] about this rule, but 5 new players join, Cactus is OVERJOYED that they made the change. I mean, they will regret that you are upset, and they hope you understand, but if it gets new players, it's worth it. You're not going to quit the game because of this, it's not THAT big of an issue. But it could be big enough to bring in new players, which is a good choice.
Once again, setting aside the argument of "if it simplifies the game," IF it were to simplify the game for argumentation's sake, it would be a good rule. Even if it upset some experienced players.
tl;dr - New players are important, yes. But growth requires retention, not just addition, and if you ignore the veterans long enough they're inevitably going to stop caring and leave and then where will we be?
I'm not denying that new players are important, I'm really not. I just disagree that they're the ONLY important people.
...but ignore them enough times and yeah they will leave because it's not going to be worth it to them anymore when their opinion doesn't seem to matter to anyone.
Would you enjoy a hobby where the people in charge trick you into getting into it with "simple" gameplay and promises of your voice mattering just to get you within their folds and promptly treat you like you don't matter? That's what you and YMT seem to be advocating.
Wow, I apologize to the community if anyone felt I left because of a disagreement with rules. That was never an issue. I left because I had a more expensive hobby.
Quote from: STAMP on October 16, 2011, 11:07:50 AMWow, I apologize to the community if anyone felt I left because of a disagreement with rules. That was never an issue. I left because I had a more expensive hobby. My apologies, then, for pointing you out. I may have been the only one that thought that. I guess all the talk about ANB and redeemed demons led me to believe that those were contributing factors to your decision. Sorry about that.
Quote from: browarod on October 16, 2011, 12:13:16 PMtl;dr - New players are important, yes. But growth requires retention, not just addition, and if you ignore the veterans long enough they're inevitably going to stop caring and leave and then where will we be?Really really stuck because its the veterans who bring in the new players. Im pretty certain Im a convert, of a convert of a convert. SomeKittens can correct me if I'm wrong onthis order. ,
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No harm, no foul.
And I'm not denying that experienced players are important, nor am I saying that new players are the ONLY important people. I am saying that new players are the most important to me, for my own selfish reasons.
So I should leave the game because you continue to ignore the fact that I was offering my opinion to those that asked for my opinion. I was never interested in debating my opinion, or having someone else tear it apart. I was offering my opinion because it was asked for. The end.
Quote from: STAMP on October 16, 2011, 05:39:52 PMNo harm, no foul. I decided to make it up to you by being right about the 49ers.