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QuoteFor starters, what is your opinion of the mathematical inevitability of consistency creep sans rotation and the specific example of how it is already plaguing Redemption in the form of the CoL deck?I have some thoughts on this, but I think it should be it own discussion. We're starting to stray pretty far from the original topic. I know things are inter-connected (ban list/rotation/power creep/consistency creep), but we should probably circle back to the Liner topic.
For starters, what is your opinion of the mathematical inevitability of consistency creep sans rotation and the specific example of how it is already plaguing Redemption in the form of the CoL deck?
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 03:42:44 PMQuoteFor starters, what is your opinion of the mathematical inevitability of consistency creep sans rotation and the specific example of how it is already plaguing Redemption in the form of the CoL deck?I have some thoughts on this, but I think it should be it own discussion. We're starting to stray pretty far from the original topic. I know things are inter-connected (ban list/rotation/power creep/consistency creep), but we should probably circle back to the Liner topic.As you wish: http://www.cactusforums.com/redemption-card-play/positive-and-negative-effects-of-set-rotation/
I don't want to seem rude but that kind of stats-quo thinking isn't gonna solve any problems
Quote from: tripleplayNa1 on February 21, 2018, 03:49:15 PMI don't want to seem rude but that kind of stats-quo thinking isn't gonna solve any problems No offense taken. I don't see the Liner as a problem. It's been around since the very first set and it will be fine for 23 more years.
And it has been causing problems for 23 years as well.
As far as Redemption ccg being the second oldest ccg still around....I know MtG and Pokemon have also been here since the 90's too.
Sorry, I should have been more specific that I was referring to the CoL specifically. I started writing about before deciding it was going to be way off track.
It would be genuinely helpful to know the actual initial intent of the card.
QuoteIt would be genuinely helpful to know the actual initial intent of the card.If you think of the card pool that was available at the time, there were no "autoblocks" besides Christian Martyr. Therefore a card like Liner could help a player extend the game by another turn (unless his opponent was wise enough to hold onto Son of God). I wasn't around at the very beginning, but that's my educated guess on the thinking behind the Liner.
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 03:57:20 PMSorry, I should have been more specific that I was referring to the CoL specifically. I started writing about before deciding it was going to be way off track.I am very interested to hear what you were writing over here
Quote from: Kevinthedude on February 21, 2018, 03:33:23 PMFor starters, what is your opinion of the mathematical inevitability of consistency creep sans rotation and the specific example of how it is already plaguing Redemption in the form of the CoL deck?I believe arguments about mathematics need to be shown to have a relation to reality. I look at the CoL deck list from Nats and I see few cards that would be rotated out (under the proposals here), and the ones that would are not the real culprits. Looking at the deck it also seems to me that CoL is the card that is way above the curve, and one that should not have been printed knowing nothing more than what was in the set immediately before.Since you disagree, please explain to me how any of the proposed set rotation schems would make the CoL deck less OP. Please do not, however, put forward the claim that it will help things in four or five years, unless you can show that CoL will still be a problem in four or five years. Back in the day TGT was a similar above-curve card. It seriously warped the meta for over two years. Nowadays no one seems to have much of a problem with it. By the time CoL would rotate out (under any of the proposals here), it too will most likely be an after thought in the meta.
Quote from: tripleplayNa1 on February 21, 2018, 03:53:11 PMAnd it has been causing problems for 23 years as well.And yet we're still here...
Every other major TCG uses set rotation to avoid the problems I mentioned above and that's why I'm for it.
Quote from: The Guardian on February 21, 2018, 04:01:33 PMQuoteIt would be genuinely helpful to know the actual initial intent of the card.If you think of the card pool that was available at the time, there were no "autoblocks" besides Christian Martyr. Therefore a card like Liner could help a player extend the game by another turn (unless his opponent was wise enough to hold onto Son of God). I wasn't around at the very beginning, but that's my educated guess on the thinking behind the Liner.I concur. A stall technique to buy time for building defense.
If you don't buy the newest cards, then you don't play.
If you don't have the newest cards you won't be very competitive even without rotation.
Quote from: JonathanW on February 21, 2018, 04:08:49 PMEvery other major TCG uses set rotation to avoid the problems I mentioned above and that's why I'm for it. I don't feel that Redemption's goal should be to mirror other TCGs. The obvious other reason that companies use set rotation is to make more money. If you don't buy the newest cards, then you don't play. ...
I have no problem with a "Legacy" type format, but I have found that those formats are not present at the local tournaments in my area, which once again limits my participation.
Quote from: JonathanW on February 21, 2018, 04:08:49 PMEvery other major TCG uses set rotation to avoid the problems I mentioned above and that's why I'm for it. I don't feel that Redemption's goal should be to mirror other TCGs. The obvious other reason that companies use set rotation is to make more money. If you don't buy the newest cards, then you don't play. I have no problem with a "Legacy" type format, but I have found that those formats are not present at the local tournaments in my area, which once again limits my participation. For Redemption, if a host holds both formats, but I'm the only one that brought a Legacy deck, then I'm out. I do not support this option.
I have no problem losing.
Quote from: Red Wing on February 21, 2018, 04:17:21 PMIf you don't have the newest cards you won't be very competitive even without rotation.I have no problem losing. I'm actually quite good at it. But not being able to play at all will make me grumpy(er).